Ampex 457

[frosty55]

I just had my Teac 80-8 serviced and quite looking forward to having some fun recording my band. However, when it comes to the actual tape to use I would rather use some old reels than buy new, if possible.
Is it easy to tell if the twelve reels of Ampex 457 that I have, will have this "sticky shed" thing, or not?
Why couldnt I just play from beginning to end, all twelve reels to see which hasnt got oxide flakes coming off the tape, and use those?
What sort of damage would the sticky shed tapes, if I have some, do?
By the way, the Ampex tape I own, goes back approx. fifteen years. Its just I have bought a couple of reels every few years or so, but I couldnt say how old each particular tape was.

 

[mdainsd]

I havnt bought a reel of 456 that isnt sss. 15 years takes you back to the cusp of the transition from faulty formula to improved, so you may verywell have a mixed selection of good and sss.

Load them onto the machine, after first giving the tape path a real good cleaning. First test: fast wind. Machine bogging? If it is, stop test, reel tape into trashcan and admire your new take up reel. Tape didnt bog the transport? Proceed with test 2. Fast wind all the way through, and back again. Inspect tape path for crap. Anything more than a tiny bit, reel tape into trash can and admire your new take up reel. Neither of these tests will load up the capstan, pinch roller or heads with garbage. A good cleaning of the tape path will remove the offending gunk. If you pass the first two tests, thevproceed to some test recording and playback. This is my method, your results may vary.

 

[Blue Jinn]

First, did you buy the tape new and sealed or used? If sealed or if they are unused and still have the date code sticker on the tape, anything with a 1994 date or earlier is crap, do as above and trash it and admire the nice clean take-up reel (you can't have too many of those really.... and you can get pancakes of new tape to put on them....)

Check these out: (images culled from the internet)

If you're confident the right tape is in the right box:

Bad:






Maybe good if 1995



Most likely good (prob made by Quantegy using Ampex brand name)

 

[Beck]

If the oldest Ampex 457 you have were new when you bought them and made within the last 17 years you don’t have any tapes with sticky shed. The dates should be on a white label on the edge of each box and on the back metal reel flange of each tape. If you don’t have any tapes labeled Quantegy on the front, you don’t have any tapes newer than 1998. So you’ve got an almost 4-year spread of good tapes labeled Ampex. Anything from part of 1998 and later will say Quantegy.

If you can’t read the dates on the boxes because they faded or you tore them off through some ant-label obsessive compulsive disorder or something look on the back of the box to see whether it says Ampex in Redwood California or Quantegy in Opelika Alabama. The ones from Quantegy in Oplelika are all good. The ones that say Ampex in Redwood may or may not be good depending on year of manufacture. If any of your boxes have the Ampex 457 logo across the middle on front of box they are older than you remember, 19 years or older and they are no good.

Between these replies you basically now all there is to know.

 

[frosty55]

Need to do some corrections now!
I dont have twelve reels of 457 like I thought, after all
I have ten reels of 457, five with "Opelika, Alabama" on the back and five with "Redwood City, California" on those. All are Ampex.
I also have three reels of Ampex 406 with "Redwood City, California" on the back.
I also have two reels of Quantegy 456 with "Opelika, Alabama" on the back.
Can I have an update of your expert thoughts chaps?

 

[Beck]

Same guidelines above go for 406, 407 and 456. All Ampex backcoated audiotape from certain years had sticky-shed issues with the binder, except 499 and GP9 . 499 always used a different binder even though it was introduced right before Ampex fixed the binder problem on the other models. GP9 wasn’t introduced until 1998 as a Qunategy product.

If you bought your tapes new and know each tape is on the original reel with the original box all you have to do is look at the date on the small white label. See attached photo of label with the date code. The string of numbers to the right, 92028, is the date code. Most important thing to remember is the first two numbers tell the year. So this tape in this example was made in 1992, which is bad. From year 2000 and on the year had four digits instead of two.

Also study the photos of the boxes posted by Blue Jinn.

Testing Ampex backcoated audiotape tape is not necessary if you know the date of manufacture. If it says 95 and later it’s good. If not then it’s not good. Actually the last quarter or so of tape made in 1994 is good too, but since it seems to cause confusion I’ve stopped recommending anything made before 1995 to make it easier.

Everything you need to know is now nicely condensed in this thread. It’s all here. Just read through the info carefully and you got it.

 

[frosty55]

I have checked the small labels on each box of Ampex 456 and Quantegy 456 and the numbers signify the tape is 1996 and later.

 

[netson]

So heres an update 2014.

I bought a lot of 2' tape. Ampex 499, Quantegy 499, and Scotch/3M 996. The 3M 996 was sticky LAMF!! In the "tapes to buy while the price is high" thread, the 996 was on the list of non sticky. Uh oh. I think that there is an issue with tapes that were once ok just needing more time to become sticky bastards.

I put the Quantegy 499 reel on (date coded 1999 at Alabama plant) and there was a little nondescript smutz, not the tell tale carmel/fiberglass. I was so traumatized by the 3M being sticky that I pulled the reel and am baking it just in case. Is there any harm in baking the tape just for safety?
And I have heard of lubricant being used. Is that worth looking into?

 

[Beck]

So heres an update 2014.

I bought a lot of 2' tape. Ampex 499, Quantegy 499, and Scotch/3M 996. The 3M 996 was sticky LAMF!! In the "tapes to buy while the price is high" thread, the 996 was on the list of non sticky. Uh oh. I think that there is an issue with tapes that were once ok just needing more time to become sticky bastards.

I put the Quantegy 499 reel on (date coded 1999 at Alabama plant) and there was a little nondescript smutz, not the tell tale carmel/fiberglass. I was so traumatized by the 3M being sticky that I pulled the reel and am baking it just in case. Is there any harm in baking the tape just for safety?
And I have heard of lubricant being used. Is that worth looking into?

Keep in mind that no tape will be 100%. We've always had occasional bad batches over the years and the reps would quickly replace with good tape. It happens sometimes. But 3M 996 does not have sticky-Shed per se. But it can be fixed through baking, which is just a little more cure time. Once 996 is fully cured it will not go back to a sticky state, since these are different chemical processes. 996 simply does not have a binder that is prone to sticky, similar to the early RMGI SM911. It was under cured and easily fixed. 3M/Scotch tape is also slightly wider, same as RMGI, so it may take a few passes for the excess to peel off, depending on what kind of tape you were using.

Ampex/Quantegy 499 doesn't have Sticky-Shed either, but it does tend to shed oxide more than other tapes. It dissipates after a few passes. Keep the tape path clean before and after sessions and it'll be fine. I would not mess with lubricant.

I have lots of 996 with no problems.

What kind of machine are you using it on?

EDIT: One thing I forgot to mention, which I always should... was the tape you have new and sealed when you got it? Especially with +9 tapes like 996 there was a lot of switcheroo. That is, there was this perception that 996 and similar were more desirable and people were willing to pay more for it, so you had people like tapeandtape spooling old Ampex 456 and 3M 226 on 996 reels. Remember, if its not sealed its not new and all bets are off as to what's really on the reel.

 

[netson]

Thanks Beck. I am using a 1984 MCI at 15ips. The tapes were all from a single session. Bought from the guy in the band, 14reels. 10 Ampex/Quantegy and 4 Scotch 3M. It looks to be the real story.
Anyhow, I baked a reel of the 499 and not even a slight trace of anything. A couple months from now and I guess I will find out if its all good. I think I will just bake all the tapes before I use them.

 

[netson]

What would be "A little more cure time?" Im using the round food dehydrator with the trays cut out btw.

 

[leddy]

I have lots of 996 with no problems.

Must be nice. I had a huge stock of it and it all went bad. Not "sticky", but such a pain to use. Shed so much oxide on the heads so fast you could hear the high freq roll off like you were slowly turning the treble knob down.

 

[Beck]

Thanks Beck. I am using a 1984 MCI at 15ips. The tapes were all from a single session. Bought from the guy in the band, 14reels. 10 Ampex/Quantegy and 4 Scotch 3M. It looks to be the real story.
Anyhow, I baked a reel of the 499 and not even a slight trace of anything. A couple months from now and I guess I will find out if its all good. I think I will just bake all the tapes before I use them.

Well you want to be careful here. You don't need to bake 499 of any year. It was never sticky, though some batches had heavier than average normal oxide shed. There's always been some normal oxide shed. It's the nature of tape. But most importantly you don't want to bake bad tapes for reuse. This idea has unfortunately gotten legs and has become one of the worst misconceptions about how to use tape. The ONLY reason to EVER bake tape that needs it is to recover the recording already on it. We don't bake tapes to use for new material.

I know its hopeless at this point to clear this idea from the web because now even eBay sellers are misguiding people in their listings by saying they've either baked the tape so its all good to go or that you can bake it yourself for reuse. Both are false. The sooner we get rid of this crap sticky-shed tape and put it in the garbage where it belongs the better.

If you have tape like Ampex 456 from the Sticky-shed years or any Scotch 226 from any year, throw the tape away and keep the nice reel. That's all it's good for. Scotch 206/207 will be fine however.

The problem is once you bake a tape it can start going back to the sticky state in days or weeks... but you won't know until the new material you're recording is already ruined. Unfortunately that's how you find out.

 

[Beck]

Must be nice. I had a huge stock of it and it all went bad. Not "sticky", but such a pain to use. Shed so much oxide on the heads so fast you could hear the high freq roll off like you were slowly turning the treble knob down.

Yeah, I've heard more of that lately. Even back in the day we always would run across a bad batch of tape now and then and Ampex, Scotch or whoever would quickly replace it. Now we only have old NOS tape for a lot of the brands/models and they're not supported anymore by the manufacturers of course. So stands to reason we may run into more of these less than perfect batches as time goes on. I always assumed they were thrown away back then if they didn't turn out quite right, but yeah who knows...

Scotch 996 became Quantegy GP9 and there was quite a bit of R&D to perfect the formula, including the binder. So yeah, 996 doesn't have sticky-shed per se, but it is not exactly GP9 either. GP9 is the improved and final version of 996.

I had Ampex 499 do like you describe, but after several passes it would clear up. Still have not seen any 996 do that myself though.