TelePaul
J to the R O C
:d :d :d
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Mickster
Well-known member
Man....I can't imagine that change in guage would cause such a problem. That's not much of a change. And you say one of the strings actually ripped a peg out of the saddle? Wow.
4
4tracker
Guest
Yes, as the other guy said, maybe it is a bigger issue with the bridge plate. If I figure out what it is I'll update. Might bring it to the luthier. The guitar is an old yamaha; only worth $100 or so so could be pointless to fix.
muttley600
Banned
and mass per unit length and elasticity. All are variable and will change the frequency.
A larger, fatter, heavier, string is less inclined to start into motion but it will vibrate at what ever speed it has to for that mass, length and tension. Part of string design and instrument design is matching the materials and intended pitch. There are lots of tension/length calculators out there. I have posted links to a few in the past.
Farview
Well-known member
I'm not exactly sure how I could have worded it much better to get the point across without launching into a physics lecture. Given the OP somehow had it in his head that lighter gauge strings need more tension to get to pitch, I figured a full explanation would just confuse the issue...and I was typing on my phone, so I was trying not to be too wordy.
Since he was putting the strings on the same guitar, the length didn't change (at least not enough to make 6 semitones of difference). I assumed that the new strings were the same brand and style, just a lighter gauge than the old strings were, so the difference in mass would probably only be because it's a smaller string and would therefore have less mass.
All things being equal, the heavier string will have a lower pitch and/or need more tension to be at the same pitch as a lighter string.
muttley600
Banned
I'd be happy to receive your physics lecture... Maybe you would like me to grade it for you?
XploZiveToyz
All American Un-American
You still don't get it! Because the neck relief is set for a heavy gauge string, if you put a lighter gauge string on it, it will have to pull even harder. Muttley can explain this better than myself, so I'll let him do so, but you(Farview) are misunderstanding what is being said here. No big deal though.
Farview
Well-known member
I wasn't attempting to help you. You obviously get it it. You are just nit-picking my over-simplified explanation.
Farview
Well-known member
The strings wouldn't have to pull harder to get to pitch, they might just fret out because the neck is bowed back because the strings have less tension, and therefore won't pull the neck straight. (because the truss rod is set for the tension of the heavier strings)You still don't get it! Because the neck relief is set for a heavy gauge string, if you put a lighter gauge string on it, it will have to pull even harder. Muttley can explain this better than myself, so I'll let him do so, but you(Farview) are misunderstanding what is being said here. No big deal though.
XploZiveToyz
All American Un-American
LOL! You get it! LOL! If the neck relief is set for lighter gauge strings then I imagine the tension would be the same as a heavy gauge string on a guitar with the neck relief set for a heavy gauge string.
Farview
Well-known member
I don't think so. The neck relief doesn't have anything to do with how much tension it takes to bring a string to pitch. The truss rod is set to keep the neck straight against the string tension, lighter strings have less tension, so you would need to adjust the truss rod for less tension to compensate.
XploZiveToyz
All American Un-American
Now we're back to where we were. LOL! On a guitar with the neck relief set for heavy gauge strings, if you put light gauge strings on the aforementioned guitar without re-adjusting the neck, the lighter gauge strings will have more tension on them to bring them to pitch than the heavy gauge strings. However, if the neck relief is set correctly for whatever string is on it, I'd think that the tension would be equal. I might be wrong about this part, but I'm right about the first part. Muttley will know for sure though. What's your take on this Muttley?
Farview
Well-known member
OOOPS! I didn't see that this went to the next page, so I posted the same thing again.... I thought the site lost my post.
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XploZiveToyz
All American Un-American
LOL! I think we're saying the same thing, just wording it differently.
Farview
Well-known member
The string will be at the same tension at a given pitch, no matter how the truss rod is set.
XploZiveToyz
All American Un-American
Don't agree. It doesn't really matter since it's only a hundred dollar guitar! LOL! It's late in the UK and Muttely is probably sleeping, but when he wakes up tomorrow he'll probably give us a definitive answer. If we were in the same town I'd bet you beer! LOL! 
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Farview
Well-known member
I don't drink, but I'll bet you a hearty handshake, a pat on the back and the warm glow of victory.
muttley600
Banned
The job of a truss rod is purely to counteract the pull of the strings. You will need to introduce a different amount of relief depending on the strings you use and the desired action to stop the strings buzzing and fretting out. Normal practice is to set the neck dead flat without the strings and then adjust for relief with the strings up to full pitch. You can work out exactly how much tension any set of strings will exert using an online tension calculator. It will vary according to the type of string, the length of the string, the gauge of the string and the pitch of the string. None of those can be ignored. Change one you change all the others apart from the mass per unit length (type of string) which is set.
That isn't the issue here. The issue is the string popping out of the bridge pin hole. That is down to the bridge plate and the pins not fitting correctly. All strings are designed to operate well within their breaking point for the tension range in which they will be used. If a string is breaking before it reaches pitch it is almost certainly down to something else. Usually a badly cut nut. Less often a sharp edge on the tuner post.
That isn't the issue here. The issue is the string popping out of the bridge pin hole. That is down to the bridge plate and the pins not fitting correctly. All strings are designed to operate well within their breaking point for the tension range in which they will be used. If a string is breaking before it reaches pitch it is almost certainly down to something else. Usually a badly cut nut. Less often a sharp edge on the tuner post.
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fullait
New member
Replacing strings on acoustic guitar
The gauges you list here are so close to being the same, there should be no noticeable difference and no (truss rod) adjustment needed. (New Gibson's actually fill the adjuster nut with hot glue to keep you from messing with it) DON'T TOUCH IT UNLESS THE NECK IS WARPED and nothing to do with string gauge. The Nut and the bridge string height might need a slight adjustment if the lighter strings BUZZ but your tension problem is with the tuners or elsewhere. You should be able to go from medium strings to Ultra Lights .10 and .47 ga with no problem. I have done this on my Ovation, Martin & Gibson. Mediums give more volume if you need it acoustically. Lights are great for acoustic electric and more finess & easier on the fingers for pushing or pulling (bending) strings. When tuning, are you tightening the 6th string then the 3rd, then 5th then 2nd then4th then 1st? To keep even tension across the neck. How many winds around the post are you putting on the heavier bass strings? Too many make for excessive strain on the tuners and giving much added strain on them making them harder to turn. The Gibson Home page demonstrates proper method for changing strings. If you have open gear tuners, you can lubricate them ever so slightly and make sure all gear screws are tight. Inspect the gears for binding. Your problem sounds to be in the tuners or too much string wound around the posts creating a larger lever acton. Hope this helps. Regards, Fullait
The gauges you list here are so close to being the same, there should be no noticeable difference and no (truss rod) adjustment needed. (New Gibson's actually fill the adjuster nut with hot glue to keep you from messing with it) DON'T TOUCH IT UNLESS THE NECK IS WARPED and nothing to do with string gauge. The Nut and the bridge string height might need a slight adjustment if the lighter strings BUZZ but your tension problem is with the tuners or elsewhere. You should be able to go from medium strings to Ultra Lights .10 and .47 ga with no problem. I have done this on my Ovation, Martin & Gibson. Mediums give more volume if you need it acoustically. Lights are great for acoustic electric and more finess & easier on the fingers for pushing or pulling (bending) strings. When tuning, are you tightening the 6th string then the 3rd, then 5th then 2nd then4th then 1st? To keep even tension across the neck. How many winds around the post are you putting on the heavier bass strings? Too many make for excessive strain on the tuners and giving much added strain on them making them harder to turn. The Gibson Home page demonstrates proper method for changing strings. If you have open gear tuners, you can lubricate them ever so slightly and make sure all gear screws are tight. Inspect the gears for binding. Your problem sounds to be in the tuners or too much string wound around the posts creating a larger lever acton. Hope this helps. Regards, Fullait
M
mixsit
Well-known member
Dude.. you could go back and edit about half your posts here
For a given pitch and scale -and string material may as well cover all the bases here
- the lighter gauge string has less tension.
The neck just bends a little per what ever tension is on it.
In this case the OP should have seen a slightly looser strings, maybe running a little lower?
With the small diff in gauge I can't help but wonder if he may have gone past pitch on his tuner to get that far out of whack?
http://www.jemsite.com/forums/f21/string-tension-charts-73846.html