91% alcohol for cleaning tascam 388 heads?

[MagnumPI]

Hi Guys,
I have been looking all over Los Angeles for 99% alcohol to clean the heads on my Tascam 388 but can only find 91%.
Will this work or should I hold out for the 99%?

Also any idea what model of ha-d-mag I should buy for the 388?

Thanks all. M.

 

[lonewhitefly]

91% is what I've always used on my decks.

 

[Beck]

99% can be found in most pharmacies, but you have to ask for it because its behind the counter. 91% is ok... certainly an improvement over 70% that you can find anywhere, but 95% and up is best.

Han-D-Mag Model 115-S

 

[A Reel Person]

..

Denatured Alcohol can be found in cans at Home Depot in the paint, glue & solvents section. I believe this would be 99%. However, I've always used 91% from the drug store, too.

 

[BradL8068]

Never use 70%, 90% up is OK, 99 is best.

 

[miroslav]

Denatured Alcohol can be found in cans at Home Depot in the paint, glue & solvents section. I believe this would be 99%. However, I've always used 91% from the drug store, too.

This is the second time here I've seen denatured alcohol mentioned for cleaning heads/transport.
NO....denatured alcohol is NOT what you want to use on your tape decks.

Denatured Alcohol:

Denatured alcohol or methylated spirits is ethanol that has additives to make it poisonous, extremely bad tasting, foul smelling or nauseating, to discourage recreational consumption. In some cases it is also dyed.

Denatured alcohol is used as a solvent and as fuel for spirit burners and camping stoves. Because of the diversity of industrial uses for denatured alcohol, hundreds of additives and denaturing methods have been used. The main additive has traditionally been 10% methanol, giving rise to the term "methylated spirits". Other typical additives include isopropyl alcohol, acetone, methyl ethyl ketone, methyl isobutyl ketone, and denatonium.[1]

Denaturing alcohol does not chemically alter the ethanol molecule. Rather, the ethanol is mixed with other chemicals to form an undrinkable solution.

Different additives are used to make it difficult to use distillation or other simple processes to reverse the denaturation. Methanol is commonly used both because its boiling point is close to that of ethanol and because it is toxic. In many countries, it is also required that denatured alcohol be dyed blue or purple with an aniline dye.

Also, don't use ethyl/rubbing alcohol either, regardless of %, as it may have things like witch-hazel mixed in for rubbing, so there's a greasy feel to it.
Isopropyl alcohol is the stuff to use. Anything over 90% is fine, but 99% is best.
If you want the "Cadillac" of isopropyl (at least it's the purest isopropyl I've ever seen for OTC sale)...MG Chemicals (Canada) makes a 99.953% pure isopropyl alcohol, and you can get it in large 1 liter bottles. I have at least a couple of liters on hand at this time (should last me a loooooong time) that I got through Mouser.

http://www.mouser.com/ProductDetail...=sGAEpiMZZMvJqaFk9BIiv6jhjM0Pk6JzTj0UuQs3kn4=
(I don't know why they say "1 quart", when it's actually 35 fl oz, just over 1 liter, but a minor point.)
Unfortunately, they have none in stock now, but it's on order for the end of January. For $12, it's a good value if you need a lot of alcohol....and really, it never goes bad!

 

[A Reel Person]

No,...

I've never mentioned denatured alcohol before, but it's my mistake here to mention it here without a cursory pass at it's definition.

As I stated, I use the 91% Isopropyl that's easily available OTC in the pharmacy section. Simple as that.

 

[MagnumPI]

Thanks guys!

 

[MagnumPI]

..and should or shouldn't I clean the rubber parts with alcohol?
I have read conflicting opinions about this.

 

[miroslav]

NO....clean the rubber with plain water.
You can either take the pinch roller off (be mindful of any small washers at either end)...and don't soak the whole thing under running water, rather take a cloth and wet it, and then rub the pinch roller with it, keep rinsing the cloth, etc....then just wipe it dry.

If you don't want to take off the deck...use a Q-Tip or cloth, whatever is easier. Dip it in some water, squeeze the excess off, then rub the pinch roller with it, slowly rolling the Q-Tip to expose clean sides. When it gets dirty, get another Q-Tip.

 

[Beck]

This is the second time here I've seen denatured alcohol mentioned for cleaning heads/transport.
NO....denatured alcohol is NOT what you want to use on your tape decks.

Actually it is! I may have been the first to mention denatured alcohol on this forum and got some interesting reactions. But this is what many professional head cleaning products were since I can remember, going back to my TV studio days in 1978 to my music studio days beginning in early 80's. Denatured alcohol was very common. We just bought it straight from the hardware store rather than pay so much more per ounce to have it in a little brand name bottle marketed to studios and audiophiles. I use it all the time and still have a 30-year-old glass bottle that I keep refilling with Klean Strip brand. Great for metal and glass heads... leaves no residue or moisture behind. Only caution is to have adequate ventilation while using it.

http://www.lowes.com/pd_148736-78-QSL26_0__?productId=3063669

 

[miroslav]

Well...I still don't think I would use anything that had questionable/variable additives mixed in, to clean my tape deck heads and transport, and many of the plastics that are in close proximity.

A lot of the chemicals found in denatured alcohol are not safe on all surfaces....not to mention, that there could be different "blends" of denatured alcohol, depending on manufacturer.

"The main additive has traditionally been 10% methanol, giving rise to the term "methylated spirits". Other typical additives include isopropyl alcohol, acetone, methyl ethyl ketone, methyl isobutyl ketone, and denatonium."

I've seen what acetone can do....never mind the others!

I will still say, do NOT use denatured alcohol on your tape decks.
I believe you when you say you used it in the past, and maybe there was a time when pure isopropyl was hard to come by, but AFA back as I can recall (and I'm going back to say, early/mid '70s) the only thing I ever saw or used or bought as a tape deck head/transport cleaning product, was isopropyl alcohol.

Here's what's in the Crown Denatured Alcohol that you linked to at Lowes:

http://www.zenstoves.net/MSDS/CrownDenaturedAlcohol.pdf

The METHYL ISOBUTYL KETONE is an acetone derived solvent.

 

[Beck]

I believe you when you say you used it in the past, and maybe there was a time when pure isopropyl was hard to come by, but AFA back as I can recall (and I'm going back to say, early/mid '70s) the only thing I ever saw or used or bought as a tape deck head/transport cleaning product, was isopropyl alcohol.

That would not be unusual for a person to only encounter isopropyl alcohol, but in pro sound shops and from deck manufacturers you would also find products containing denatured alcohol or freon. Freon is best for stubborn old gunk when resorting an old deck. The products I used that were pure denatured alcohol marketed and branded by the deck manufactures like, Panasonic, Akai, Ampex, etc. So everyone just refilled those bottles with denatured from the hardware store. Looks the same, smells the same, works the same.

You have to be careful whatever you buy. people easily make the mistake of using rubbing isopropyl alcohol, which contains oils that are left behind.

I've found a few people on this forum before that were alarmed by the thought of denatured alcohol, comparing it to acetone and other paint supplies because the cans look similar.

Check Steve Hoffman and Eddie Ciletti on the subject. They've been around even longer than me I think.

Maintenance Question for Steve | Steve Hoffman Music Forums

tape101_1_playback

 

[rayc]

I've been using "metho" (methylated spirits) for cassettes & reel players since cassette players became consumer products.
It's uncoloured in Australia and does a good job. I did the sniff test in the 70's of the brands of cleaner sold in record stores & hifi shops. We were peobably being scammed because they were all metho.
It works, it works well in fact.

 

[miroslav]

Sniffing tests aside.......and/or finding specialized, "pure" products from specific sources and really researching what you are using....
...when people see "denatured alcohol" mentioned, they think of the stuff you find at Home Depot, Lowe's and your typical hardware store....the stuff they used last summer to clean paint brushes, and the impure stuff which most likely has additional chemicals you would not want anywhere near your tape deck.

It's just so much simpler to walk into most any decent drug store and pick up 90+% anhydrous isopropyl, than have to look for MSDS info on a particular can of denatured alcohol that they sell in the hardware stores to see what's really in it and if it's safe.
Do you have a link to sources that sell pure denatured alcohol without the other additives?

When I look at the content of most hardware store cans of denatured alcohol....they are not pure and they do contain acetone-based products, which my be fine to use on an all-metal surface for cleaning, but why risk it when most decks have other surfaces that can be damaged by those kinds of solvents.


YMMV......

 

[wkrbee]

Just buy some EVERCLEAR...

 

[Szabo Samuel]

Im using 90% alcool too. Its fine

 

[Beck]

Denatured alcohol goes back way before my time as a tape head and path cleaner. This from the Ampex Model 307-2 Operation and maintenance Manual 1954:

Section 4:3:1 Cleaning

“The Capstan, the head faces, and tape guides should be cleaned daily with denatured alcohol applied with a soft cloth.”

I have to say this is one of the most exasperating and frustrating things about participating on amateur recording forums. So often members try to reinvent the wheel when its all been done for them as long as six decades ago.

If you take some time to pour through tape deck manuals you’ll find many recommend denatured alcohol, even preferring it to isopropyl alcohol because denatured has the least moisture content you will find and the evaporation time is lightning fast, which is what your’re looking for when cleaning heads. Isopropyl will always have a small amount of moisture and evaporates more slowly, leaving water behind on the heads. IMO 95% to 99% isopropyl is probably good enough, but if you can’t find it, denatured is better hands down for long term maintenance. I use it, have always used it and every professional studio I’ve been associated with used it for both audio and video machines.

There are better formulas. I mentioned Freon previously but you can’t get that anymore due to ozone related laws. And Xylene based cleaners are probably best of all. There were/are quite a few different approaches to head cleaning solvents, but back in the day the majority of name brand head cleaning formulas were nothing more than denatured alcohol… and it was that way right up until 1994 at least. After that tape deck manufacturers started getting out of the business of putting their brand names on bottles of denatured alcohol marketed as head cleaner.

And it doesn’t matter what brand denatured alcohol you use or what the denaturing agent is. The stuff I’ve always used is not Crown as you mentioned, but Kleen-Strip. But again it doesn’t matter. It’s a big time waster running about looking at MSDS sheets and trying to play chemical engineer, because you really don’t know what you’re looking at or what it means in practical terms. The people who’ve been using these solvents for decades know that they do work in practical terms.

There’s way too much alarmism and just plain fear mongering in these forums for my blood. It's not that hard. A few of us have been there and done a lot of things in our careers and we're passing that experience on only to meet with irrational and uninformed silliness.

 

[miroslav]

It’s a big time waster running about looking at MSDS sheets and trying to play chemical engineer, because you really don’t know what you’re looking at or what it means in practical terms.

Really.....?
You mean no one will know how to read the basic chemical contents listed on an MSDS sheet and any warnings that are included....?
C'mon now Beck.

All this stuff about "back in the day" doesn't change the fact that there are some denatured alcohol mixes that have some nasty additives and poisons, and not every denatured mix is identical from brand to brand.
I'm not worried that anyone will drink the stuff and get poisoned...but some of those additives (liked acetone) can melt certain plastics.
That's not being irrational and uninformed....rather just the opposite.
I've seen acetone do that....and I don't see the point of risking that when isopropyl is probably more readily available and safer.... but I guess you feel that's unnecessary "silliness".
You also mentioned xylene....sure, it's great for removing all kinds of gunk and glues....but it's also even worse than acetone on some surfaces, and not to mention, harmful when inhaled.
I guess knowing that information is also "silliness"....?

There are many decks that have a plastic covered/coated erase head, and other plastic parts in and around the transport. I've spoken to TASCAM and FOSTEX in the past about what to use for cleaning, since I too have an assortment of cleaning agents, not just isopropyl alcohol, and I am aware that some of those chemicals are not safe on some surfaces....and they both said to be careful when using certain cleaners, and that isopropyl alcohol would be the safest/best choice for daily, basic cleaning.

That's really the point here that you seem to be intentionally ignoring and going against for some strange reason...?

You know, I don't much care what anyone uses....it's not going to matter much to me if they use isopropyl or denatured alcohol, or some other chemicals.....but it will matter to them if some of those solvents end up melting some plastics on their decks, maybe not in one application (though some plastics can melt fast) but over time, some solvents can slowly dissolve them.
I use isopropyl alcohol for regular cleaning, and I've not ever had a need for something stronger....even with SSS tape gunk it does the job.

For restoring ancient decks with 30 years of dried up gunk.....that's a different story, and that's not what we are talking about here.

 

[Beck]

This is one of those times your delving into an area of expertise you're not familiar with in practical recording terms. You're looking at this stuff in context of what is more familiar to you... seeing denatured alcohol as a hardware store item with the paint supplies. A few others on the forum have made the same mistake in the past. Of course past studio practice matters and what tape deck makers put in their bottles of head cleaner.

So decades go by and we've always used denatured alcohol, but like I said you want to reinvent the wheel like those studios never existed and those maintenance engineers never used these products. And you're basing that on what?

I'm basing my recommendations on manufacturer maintenance guidelines as prescribed in product manuals from Ampex, Otari, Studer, etc over many years... and putting those techniques into practice over many years. I've never in my life seen or heard of a tape head being damaged by denatured alcohol, but I have seen heads accumulate surface rust with low concentration isopropyl alcohol that had too much moisture in it, and I've seen people mistakenly use "rubbing alcohol" which not only contained too much water, but oils as well.

If I were to send an intern out for alcohol based cleaner I'm more confident in sending him to Home Depot for denatured alcohol than I am to the drug store. And that's what we're doing here on these forums... sharing our experience and sending people out to to get the right stuff.

I've never seen denatured alcohol with acetone in it, but that all comes down to parts per million anyway. These products are carefully balanced and there are many additives that will do the trick and still be interchangeable. And I recommend a specific brand that I've used for many years. I may even use 70% isopropyl in a pinch if that's all I could find, but we're talking about long-term practices here and that's where it matters what you use consistently over time.

But the bottom line is you're basically dismissing professional head cleaning products that have been used in studios from Abbey Road to Muscle shoals to you name it, big and small studios everywhere.

The onus is on you to submit evidence... proof that these solvents are harmful to the hardware that we've been using them on without incident for decades. But you're wasting your time.