Which mics should I use to record acoustic guitar?

[moresound]

LOL! Ours was Victorian red brick with a concrete staircase but it would take better ears than mine to hear the difference between brick and concrete walls! Lovely old building...I miss working there (though I don't miss some of the circuitous cable routes we were forced to use).

We just took everything into the staircase.

@ RnRStar ..... No sorry. Though if I poke around in the archives I may be able to come up with a finished product of that project via a song on their CD. Would be hard to isolate as you can imagine.

 

[grimtraveller]

I do remember reading something about John Lennon recording vocals in the bathroom, but I'm unsure if that's true.

I think that the effect he got on his voice when Phil Spector was his producer was known as the bathroom effect but it was done with tape echo not bathroom tiles. The Beatles did record the bulk of "Yer blues" in a cupboard next to their regular studio. All the gear was piled in there, drums, amps, live vocals etc. On the record, I can't tell !

 

[Bobbsy]

Do you have any examples of this


I do remember reading something about John Lennon recording vocals in the bathroom, but I'm unsure if that's true.

I don't think so...this was all about 20 years ago and projects like that were when we hired our studio to other broadcasters so keeping a copy would have been a copyright issue.

I've heard the same story about Lennon but am a bit sceptical. Unless he had a very big bathroom, as much as the acoustics help shower singers like me, on a recording they tend to sound pretty dire because of the small size of the room. Though I guess with his wealth he could have had a bathroom the size of a mansion!

 

[rocknrollstar]

I don't think so...this was all about 20 years ago and projects like that were when we hired our studio to other broadcasters so keeping a copy would have been a copyright issue.

I've heard the same story about Lennon but am a bit sceptical. Unless he had a very big bathroom, as much as the acoustics help shower singers like me, on a recording they tend to sound pretty dire because of the small size of the room. Though I guess with his wealth he could have had a bathroom the size of a mansion!

I was skeptical myself when I heard it - although if I was quite wealthy I like the idea of recording in the bathroom. Don't know why, just do.

We just took everything into the staircase.

@ RnRStar ..... No sorry. Though if I poke around in the archives I may be able to come up with a finished product of that project via a song on their CD. Would be hard to isolate as you can imagine.

Yeah of course, even hearing it in context would be great. I'm actually listening to mixes this time around - in previous recording attempts I sort of just gave up - I'm seeing how a mix is basically just as important as the songwriting itself. I've been listening to early Beck demos (Beck - He's A Mighty Good Leader) and I'm starting to think about things - it's recorded live gtr and voice so I would assume x2 mics, one w figure of 8 and I think I hear a small diaphragm on the acoustic as it's quite treble-y. Would you agree?

I think that the effect he got on his voice when Phil Spector was his producer was known as the bathroom effect but it was done with tape echo not bathroom tiles. The Beatles did record the bulk of "Yer blues" in a cupboard next to their regular studio. All the gear was piled in there, drums, amps, live vocals etc. On the record, I can't tell !

I think that track sounds brilliant. Raw, live, aggressive. Wish my cupboard sounded like that (and could actually hold anything haha)




SIDENOTE: what do you guys make of attached mix? - I consider it mixed and done, just needs mastered to bump up the volume. I recorded it a lot quieter, one mic (LDC) on acoustic guitar, pointing diagonally down, about a foot out (as in I stretched my leg out and put the mic at the end of my foot) double tracked and then one voice, same mic. Very minimal EQ and other plugins - how it should be.


I think the since acoustic is only thing with the voice, the LDC was the correct choice as it captured more low end, and whether it's true or not - LDCs are a bit more "forgiving" if you like than a small diaphragm condenser.


I believe I am correct in saying get it even in mixing, get it louder in mastering?

 

[witzendoz]

I think that the effect he got on his voice when Phil Spector was his producer was known as the bathroom effect

It came about because Phil Spector was a slave driver in the studio and there was no time to go to the bathroom, so when the singer really had to go Phil would follow them into the bathroom with the mic. A new sound was born. However the tape editor had to cut out any extraneous sounds that were not supposed to be on the recording.

Alan.

 

[Bobbsy]

Tuning an electric hand dryer to the right key can be a real pig of a job...

I wonder though if the so-called "bathroom effect" was the acoustic echo chamber that Spector was known to use quite frequently--basically playing back a signal on a speaker in a carefully tuned reverberant space and miking it from the other side of the space. It was sort of a precursor to plate and spring reverbs and well before the modern electronic ones. If you listen to a lot of "wall of sound" recordings you can clearly hear this effect.

 

[grimtraveller]

It came about because Phil Spector was a slave driver in the studio and there was no time to go to the bathroom, so when the singer really had to go Phil would follow them into the bathroom with the mic. A new sound was born. However the tape editor had to cut out any extraneous sounds that were not supposed to be on the recording.

With a straight face, a little persuasion and the right quantity of drink, you could convince people of the truth of this !

 

[DM60]

Les Paul experimented with different room sounds way back when. I think on the documentary of him, they filmed him recording Mary Ford in what seemed like a bathroom.

 

[rocknrollstar]

It came about because Phil Spector was a slave driver in the studio and there was no time to go to the bathroom, so when the singer really had to go Phil would follow them into the bathroom with the mic. A new sound was born. However the tape editor had to cut out any extraneous sounds that were not supposed to be on the recording.

Alan.

Because it's Phil Spector I'd believe that. He's crazy. I've heard various stories from various artists who got bored double tracking parts and Phil would casually just bring a gun out and put it on the desk, apparently.

 

[moresound]

I was always under the assumption that the "Lennon" voice was due to the fact of double tracking his vocal tracks.

 

[Mr Clean]

I wonder though if the so-called "bathroom effect" was the acoustic echo chamber that Spector was known to use quite frequently--basically playing back a signal on a speaker in a carefully tuned reverberant space and miking it from the other side of the space. It was sort of a precursor to plate and spring reverbs and well before the modern electronic ones. If you listen to a lot of "wall of sound" recordings you can clearly hear this effect.

Norman Petty also did this in the 50's with a room that was tiled for the purpose. (Tiled by Buddy Holly and his Father) He had it set up with one speaker at the end of the room and several mics positioned at different intervals along the length of the room. So at the flick of a switch to a different mic he had more or less reverb. There was mention by some people that he added springs to his speaker cones for added effect. A very clever man and ahead of his time with a lot of stuff.

 

[grimtraveller]

I was always under the assumption that the "Lennon" voice was due to the fact of double tracking his vocal tracks.

This was earlier when he was a Beatle. On his own he began utilising the bathroom effect that wasn't created in the bathroom.

 

[Snail]

Some good advice above, plus you may want to read the "Cakewalk 10 Microphone Placement Techniques for Acoustic Guitar" article, which is good. I can't seem to post a link here, but you can easily find it online.

There are lots of positions you can try out, and you have to experiment. You will probably also need to play a bit with EQ to get the sound you want. The room is very important, as people have noted. Try recording in different spaces or moving stuff around in your room to change the sound of the room, or even recording in different areas in the room to deaden or liven up the sound.

As noted, if you're just doing guitar and vocals, it can really help to widen the guitar and place the vocal dead center, either by hard panning two mic's, or if you are just using one mic, using some other technique (like just making a copy of the track in your DAW, delaying it almost imperceptibly and then panning the two tracks R/L). Otherwise, as you say, they can be fighting for space. Leaving them mono and putting your guitar slightly off center and vocal slightly off center in the other direction doesn't sound that great in my experience.

 

[b00n]

like just making a copy of the track in your DAW, delaying it almost imperceptibly and then panning the two tracks R/.

This will unavoidably mess with the mono-compatibility of your mix.
I had good results with giving the guitar a stereo reverb and the voice a mono verb.
You can add a tad of fairy dust to the guitar by sending slightly detuned copies (100% wet, one up, one down) of the guitar signal hard panned into the verb (not into the master bus).
This gives a slight modulation in the reverb,
but this is overcooked easily, so take care!

 

[rocknrollstar]

Some good advice above, plus you may want to read the "Cakewalk 10 Microphone Placement Techniques for Acoustic Guitar" article, which is good. I can't seem to post a link here, but you can easily find it online.

There are lots of positions you can try out, and you have to experiment. You will probably also need to play a bit with EQ to get the sound you want. The room is very important, as people have noted. Try recording in different spaces or moving stuff around in your room to change the sound of the room, or even recording in different areas in the room to deaden or liven up the sound.

As noted, if you're just doing guitar and vocals, it can really help to widen the guitar and place the vocal dead center, either by hard panning two mic's, or if you are just using one mic, using some other technique (like just making a copy of the track in your DAW, delaying it almost imperceptibly and then panning the two tracks R/L). Otherwise, as you say, they can be fighting for space. Leaving them mono and putting your guitar slightly off center and vocal slightly off center in the other direction doesn't sound that great in my experience.

Alot of great information here guys.

That Cakewalk article is very easy to find and very good reading - unfortunately I can only try a few of the mic choices as I only have some of the ones listed, but still worth reading and very informative.


Going to try that modulated reverb b00n