Please Critique My Songwriting

  • Thread starter Thread starter Zydrus
  • Start date Start date
[Looks up, notes the "MP3 MIXING Clinic" forum title, continues listening to first track]

The mix is definitely weak. Not BAD, just a lot of little things wrong. I've heard worse here, and worse that the artist got better with some help. But it doesn't sound like you're interested in learning to mix it better... (?)


The Mistakes song is pretty cliche, lyrically and musically. Performance is fine, it's lacking some energy/emotion. I can hear you're trying. Might be a product of weakish lyrics and music. there's only so much you can do vocally before it would sound over the top on this. There's obviously a place for this style/delivery mechanism for music (see most of the top 40). What are you looking to accomplish? Say musically? What do the artists you listen to have in common with the music you make?
 
Please by all means help me out with the mixing. I asked in the Newbie forum where to post songs to get feedback on my songwriting. I realize this says the MP3 Mixing Clinic but this is where I was told to post it. What am I looking to accomplish? A publishing deal would be my ideal goal, but you have to have great songs. That is why I'm more focused on the songwriting part as opposed to the mixing. I think what the artist I listen to have in common with the music I make is it about telling a story.
 
Zydrus said:
A publishing deal would be my ideal goal, but you have to have great songs.
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Really? I haven't heard a top 40 song that was "great" in a very, very, VERY long time. :-/

You should spend less time writing music and more time working out at the gym if you're sincere about getting a record deal. Oh, and tanning salon too!

[when I have some time later I'll revisit the track and offer some feedback on the mix :) ]
 
Zydrus said:
Please by all means help me out with the mixing. I asked in the Newbie forum where to post songs to get feedback on my songwriting. I realize this says the MP3 Mixing Clinic but this is where I was told to post it. What am I looking to accomplish? A publishing deal would be my ideal goal, but you have to have great songs. That is why I'm more focused on the songwriting part as opposed to the mixing. I think what the artist I listen to have in common with the music I make is it about telling a story.
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Actually, I told him to come to the MP3 Clinic. I thought he was asking where to post his mixes for comments, not solely his songwriting. So, maybe this should go in the songwriting forum and I can move it there.

Whoooosh!!!
Done.
:)
 
Chili said:
Actually, I told him to come to the MP3 Clinic. I thought he was asking where to post his mixes for comments, not solely his songwriting. So, maybe this should go in the songwriting forum and I can move it there.

Whoooosh!!!
Done.
:)
Click to expand...

Well, if someone is looking for a publishing deal, there is production value needed. With all of the tools available, your demos cannot sound incomplete or crappy. Why would a broken industry put money into a musician who didn't invest in the time/knowledge/skill to make a decent demo?

Just saying
 
jimmys69 said:
Well, if someone is looking for a publishing deal, there is production value needed. With all of the tools available, your demos cannot sound incomplete or crappy. Why would a broken industry put money into a musician who didn't invest in the time/knowledge/skill to make a decent demo?

Just saying
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Put another way, "Why should they invest you when you won't invest in you?"
 
I clicked away from here but had to come back to start a rant.

Here is the deal. If you want to do this for a living, even as a serious hobby. Take the time to learn! If you wanted to play soccer, do you just go out on game day and play? No, you condition, you scrimmage, you learn technique, you practice, you invest time into it. Even the people who play on the weekend leagues. Not, if you want to go into the semi pros or the pros, you not only have to be talented, you have to step up your game and skill level.

Making and recording music is no different. If you have talent, then take what you are given and take it to the next level, invest in your talent. Regardless of what one thinks, making great music is an accident. If you want to go pro, then learn your craft and be pro. Even painters, carpenters, all great artists put a lot of blood sweat and tears into their art. Just grabbing a computer, a DAW and some MIDI sounds it not going to get you there.

Rant over, please return to your regularly schedule forum.
 
jimmys69 said:
I cant rep you again DM. You deserve some for that comment.
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Without trying to be a jerk, sometimes I wonder what some people think. It is a very complex undertaking that requires talent and discipline. Stop, caught myself. I was getting ready to rant again.

To OP and anyone else reading this. This wasn't meant to push you away and I think everyone on the board really wants to help. But do bring an attitude of ready to learn and put in some work to get better. Hopefully I didn't scare anyone off. :thumbs up:
 
DM60 said:
Without trying to be a jerk, sometimes I wonder what some people think. It is a very complex undertaking that requires talent and discipline. Stop, caught myself. I was getting ready to rant again.

To OP and anyone else reading this. This wasn't meant to push you away and I think everyone on the board really wants to help. But do bring an attitude of ready to learn and put in some work to get better. Hopefully I didn't scare anyone off. :thumbs up:
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Here is the thing. I did come here with an attitude of ready to learn and wanting to get better. But I came to a home recording forum to get feedback on my songwriting. I guess that is where I went wrong. I realize in this day and age people expect you to have high quality demo's with all the tools that are available to them. And as I mentioned I would like feedback on the mixing but I was just more focused on the songwriting side. Because quite frankly I can always pay someone else to record and mix my songs. BUT if the song sucks then it doesn't really matter.

And FWIW, last week I purchased the Focusrite Scarlett 2i2 Studio Bundle and a pair of M-Audio AV 40 monitors to upgrade from my Toneport GX, Dynamic mic, and computer speaker setup because I do want my stuff to sound better.
 
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O.K., on the song... nothing new, but would be a great country song.
 
Zydrus said:
Here is the thing. I did come here with an attitude of ready to learn and wanting to get better. But I came to a home recording forum to get feedback on my songwriting. I guess that is where I went wrong. I realize in this day and age people expect you to have high quality demo's with all the tools that are available to them. And as I mentioned I would like feedback on the mixing but I was just more focused on the songwriting side. Because quite frankly I can always pay someone else to record and mix my songs. BUT if the song sucks then it doesn't really matter.

And FWIW, last week I purchased the Focusrite Scarlett 2i2 Studio Bundle and a pair of M-Audio AV 40 monitors to upgrade from my Toneport GX, Dynamic mic, and computer speaker setup because I do want my stuff to sound better.
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So, I wasn't aiming this just at you, remember, others read this as well. But, sounds like you are willing to go in for the long haul and that is good. But I hope you do get my point, this isn't easy and if you want to get better, it will require work.

There are many here to help you along, but be prepared that there is a learning curve so don't get frustrated, with work it will come.
 
Ah-hem <Chili puts his mod cap on. It looks eerily similar to a dunce cap>

I think this thread went off on a tangent from the beginning. In another thread, the OP asked where he could get comments on his song. I mistakenly thought he was asking about a mix and sent him to the MP3 clinic. He posted this thread looking for comments on his songwriting. Pinky, rightfully so, pointed out this was in the MP3 clinic and made some comments about the mix. I moved it over to the songwriting forum but the intent was already lost.

OP understands he has to get the total package together (sans tanning salon) before he gets a publishing deal. Songwriting is indeed the first place to start.

Welcome to the site Zydrus. We're schizophrenic like this but we mean well. :D And there is a ton-load of info that can be gleaned from these forums.

<Chili takes his dunce ca... I mean, mod cap off.>
 
Zydrus said:
quite frankly I can always pay someone else to record and mix my songs. BUT if the song sucks then it doesn't really matter.
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I've been arguing for some years now that songwriting is overrated. Songs can be wonderfully "potential" in their embryo form, but in truth, unless it is performed well within a worthwhile arrangement one may never know. Similarly, some songs may, in their embryonic form sound pretty lame. But once each strand has been worked out, imaginatively arranged, passionately and skilfully played and cleverly mixed, you could have a masterpiece.
Have you ever listened to any bonus demos on CDs ? Most of those I've heard are shit and would never be worth listening to had I not known the full version all those years.
I know with my own songs, I have to tease out whatever may be useful about them. In their embryonic form, they're just ideas. They're like a naked body in need of fancy clothing.
 
grimtraveller said:
I've been arguing for some years now that songwriting is overrated. Songs can be wonderfully "potential" in their embryo form, but in truth, unless it is performed well within a worthwhile arrangement one may never know. Similarly, some songs may, in their embryonic form sound pretty lame. But once each strand has been worked out, imaginatively arranged, passionately and skilfully played and cleverly mixed, you could have a masterpiece.
Have you ever listened to any bonus demos on CDs ? Most of those I've heard are shit and would never be worth listening to had I not known the full version all those years.
I know with my own songs, I have to tease out whatever may be useful about them. In their embryonic form, they're just ideas. They're like a naked body in need of fancy clothing.
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I think it is difficult when trying to write songs on your own as you don't have any other feedback. If you look at a lot of songs and who the writers were you will see two, three, or four guys maybe more. I've never had this luxury. Even when I was in a full band my other members really gave me no input on songwriting. I'd bring them an idea and they would stare at me blankly. I'd end up to just taking it myself and trying to work it out and bring a completed song back to them, then they would tell me if it was good or not! LOL
 
Zydrus,

I don't normally like to critque another writer - but since you indicate you would like to get a publishing deal as a writer, I thought I would offer my insight (I too write to be published/placed and actually have too publishers who occasionally accept my songs and have placed my material on a copy of indie recordings, a few direct to video movies and a prime time televison sitcom.

I will not focus on your recording skills - since others have already suggested they are less than ideal (I don't think they are horrid - in particular since you readily admit you have not acquired recording skills.

As a writer, your songs are OK within the genre you seem to be focusing on - but I don't beleive the songs are strong enough to make them stand out to a publisher. In addition, the genre you are choosing you write in is a genre in which most artists are self contained, meaning they write their own material and do not normally look to outside writers - thus, a publisher would likely not be able to place your songs (even if they were stronger).

I think you have a good voice for the genre you are workinging in (some miner key issues with staying in tune - but you could be a good vocalist in that genre). You may be better off trying to market yourself as an artist (or get in a band where you can be a contributing writer) - rather than trying to be a published songwriter (the competition is fierce and you are not in an ideal genre to break through as a writer.

If you do want to focus on your writing, really focus on your melodies (which are not strong) and focus on making each song strong as a stand alone voice and guitar presentation (if it can't hold up in the simple format, no amount of production can make it better). If you do plan to market your songs to publishers, please keep in mind that publishers (at least the ones who can actually place songs) hear some really strong songs with excellent melodies and strong hooks - and they receive some reallly slick demos (where every sound "pops" (your demos are still in the "muddy" range that novice engineers have to learn to rise above).

If you love what you do, and strive to do it to the very best of your ability and you committ yourself to your music above all else - mayby you can catch a break (but I think you are a couple of years short on skill and execution). You're not bad - simply not yet good enough (as a songwriter).
 
Thanks Xdrummer. That is exactly what I'm looking for. I'm working on a couple new songs and I'll probably go back and work on the others. I'll just keep working and see how they come out.
 
I think it's a great idea to want to improve your songs. When every Tom Dick and Harry is recording at home, the only thing to seperate you from anyone else is the writing. A great song can always be re recorded, a crap one can never be fixed in the mixing room.

Your songs are very raw. You seem to have the basic idea of how to structure a song, but they never really take off either.

Lyrics seem kinda dull.

I would stick with your idea of working on your songs, it will serve you better down the road, but recording will not change your songs. try different rhythms, contrasting sections. Right now you got ...strum strum a strum...new part...strum strum a strum, chorus, strum strum a strum.

Some of your guitar hooks are decent, I would work on them some more and building your song around them. Challenge yourself to go different places with the song, places not so predictible, and when it dont seem right...THAT'S when you are on to something. Try 3, 4, 5 different versions of the same...verse, or chorus, preludes, etudes, codas, lyrics etc.

You can start with a hook and work backwards, works very well this way. Songs do not have to be follow the leader they can begin anywhere,

And when you get a good enough ear to hear if your song stinks or not, THAT'S when you start becoming good. Its when you cant hear it you're not very good.

Keep doing it, write something every day. Take your favorite songs and re write the lyrics, this will teach u about structure, prosody, and variance.

Take your favorite lyrics and write new music to them. if you got talent you will get good at it. Sound kinda middle of the road right now, keep working!
 
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