Need Tracking Advice with 4 Guys Live in 1 Room

[Robertt8]

Hey guys,

We're trying to record 4 guys live in a room and hoping to be able to make a good enough recording to either give away or sell. We're looking for a very LIVE feel here, so we're not looking to record one instrument at a time.

I'm looking for suggestions on where to put mics/people for best sound and control.

We're kind of an upbeat, Jack Johnson on crack, or G. Love meets Sublime (just to give you a raw idea of style)

Here is the rundown of guys/instruments.

SINGER: Plays rhythm (ACOUSTIC) guitar and main vocals
LEAD GUITAR: Plays lead (ACOUSTIC) guitar and sings backup a little (also sings a few songs lead)
BASS GUITAR: Plays (ELECTRIC) bass and sings main backup. (also sings 1 song lead)
DJEMBE: Only plays Djembe…no vocals

We have a fair amount of mics and probably the ability to record 8 tracks or so:

Neumann: TLM 103 (1)
Shure: KSM32, SM58 (2)
Royer: Ribbon (not sure what)
Mojave: MA-200 (2)
Studio Projects: C1, B1 (1 of each)
SE: SE1A (1)
Naiant: X-0 (2) (little lipstick omnidirectional mic)
Audio Technica: Pro25 (kick drum mic)

I think we have a few other randoms to pick from.

Any Thoughts or placements?

 

[Steenamaroo]

What kind of mix are you looking for? Do you want to sell the idea that this was done live, and create a believable stereo landscape,
or is this more of a production than that?

Just, I'm thinking because there's no full kit, you could probably get a way with setting the instruments up like you're on a stage and doing a stereo capture without vocals, then overdub the vocals later.

I see you don't have a suitable stereo pair, but if that was the route you were going down, I'm sure you could make something work.

Just thinking out loud.

 

[DM60]

What kind of mix are you looking for? Do you want to sell the idea that this was done live, and create a believable stereo landscape,
or is this more of a production than that?

Just, I'm thinking because there's no full kit, you could probably get a way with setting the instruments up like you're on a stage and doing a stereo capture without vocals, then overdub the vocals later.

Just thinking out loud.

To add to this, if you want good control of the tracks, then lay down each part alone, tracking in headphones. They way you eliminate bleed. But as Steen says, if you want a live feel, position your mics for the full sound (like a quartet). Problem with that is, you need to play like you want it mixed as it is truly a one take shot.

Unless you guys are well rehearsed, I would track each instrument and then rough mix, then vocals, then final. This would give you the best control.

 

[Steenamaroo]

To add to this, if you want good control of the tracks, then lay down each part alone, tracking in headphones. They way you eliminate bleed. But as Steen says, if you want a live feel, position your mics for the full sound (like a quartet). Problem with that is, you need to play like you want it mixed as it is truly a one take shot.

Unless you guys are well rehearsed, I would track each instrument and then rough mix, then vocals, then final. This would give you the best control.

Yeah, I'd fall in line with that.

 

[Robertt8]

Thanks for the advice guys.

We actually do a fairly decent job of tracking one instrument at a time, but we're looking to capture the "magic (or crappyness)" of a LIVE & lively renditions. We have several CDs out and have gone through the studio, but we're actually looking for a very LIVE feel, but with as much control as we can get, while recording live.

 

[Steenamaroo]

Live feel but with control.....Ok.

I wonder could you treat the group like a drum kit.
Stereo pair at a distance being the core of your sound - Close mics per instrument to introduce for control, if necessary.
Would that work?

I'd still leave vocals out and do overdubs if possible, but that's up to you.

 

[DM60]

Thanks for the advice guys.

We actually do a fairly decent job of tracking one instrument at a time, but we're looking to capture the "magic (or crappyness)" of a LIVE & lively renditions. We have several CDs out and have gone through the studio, but we're actually looking for a very LIVE feel, but with as much control as we can get, while recording live.

Right, that is why I referenced the Quartet. In classical music, the musicians are actually mixing as they play, each note's loudness has to be played that way as the mixing is happening real time. 99% of classical music is recorded that way, that is why they rehearse so much.

Take that approach, the your micing will be centered around sound capture as you will not get an opportunity to mix. You can direct mic everything, but you will still get bleed so you would have to use a noise gate to kill some of the bleed, but that could degrade your instrument.

You could do like they did on the live mix contest, use sound barriers to segregate the sound as much a possible, you will still get bleed, but less. Close micing, dobros for sound barriers and a few room mics for ambiance. If they still have the youtube of the video "mix this" Mix This Contest. This will help get some good results.

You can do it, I just think it is a little more difficult than maybe imagined.

 

[mjbphotos]

VM = Vocal Mic GM = Guitar Mic

Assuming your room has decent treatment, and you want to do everything at once (including vocals) for the 'live' feel, set up with the mics pointing away from each other as shown to minimize bleed.

the 'stereo pair' idea is good, except it replies on everyone to 'self mix', and assumes everyone's volumes (including vocals) are more-or-less equal. A lead acoustic guitar is seldom going to be loud enough that way, and the djembe is usually too loud in such a situation.

 

[Robertt8]

That is a great chart MJBPHOTOS. Thanks. I'll see what we can do with that.

 

[witzendoz]

Exactly how I would do it, set up in the round facing towards the middle and you will get the best less spill result. Make some Gobos and sit them where you need to reduce spill further.

I have recorded many album releases this way for the old live in the studio feel. In fact my own bands new album (out soon, just little plug there) was recorded live in the studio with only the vocals recorded after, no instrument over dubs. We only did the vocals separate as we had a drum kit and amps in the room.

My favourite way of recording, track it live.

Alan.

P.S, I would use a small bass amp and mic that as well as the DI.

 

[Jay C]

Thanks for the advice guys.

We actually do a fairly decent job of tracking one instrument at a time, but we're looking to capture the "magic (or crappyness)" of a LIVE & lively renditions. We have several CDs out and have gone through the studio, but we're actually looking for a very LIVE feel, but with as much control as we can get, while recording live.

this makes me think of an album i've been listening to called "Mind the Drift" by Big Business. awesome album has a HUGE live sound, if you could find out a bit about how they recorded that album might give you some ideas.