GearFest Mixing Contest

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I am sorry to burst your bubble but, a great mixing engineer can spot a truly great mix from a bunch of good mixes very very easily. A great painter can notice a great painting easily from a bunch of ordinary ones.

When you know your game it "doesn't matter about opinion", what is amazing, IS AMAZING. And if you are amazing, you will easily spot what's amazing.

Besides, even the best mixing engineers I know come to criticize their own mixes, and improve upon them. The best people are great auto-critics.

That is spot on aarvin...exactly what i was thinking, I figure a 'spot listen' would establish which mixes were in the ballpark and then a more detailed listen to a short list would be the way to do the judging on this many entries. I would think that listening would take place in a controlled environment thereby creating a level playing field. I also think Clarity's mix is very very good :thumbs up:
 
It seems there is a lot of concern as to whether things are being handled fairly - rather than speculate, here's a direct quote of a reply that Fab posted on Gearslutz regarding similar questions:

Hi guys,

I thought I'd use some of my no-sleep time to chime in.

First, I think you should not worry about deadlines too much since the amazing thing about Soundcloud is that we can see upload dates on everything. People will probably keep on uploading stuff up there for weeks. It does not matter.

Second, it does not matter (oh no, I'm repeating myself). What matters is you mixed it, you took the time, you listened to something new, maybe you were challenged, maybe you were stressed and questioned yourself which made you better, maybe you were vindicated, maybe you were elated, maybe you saw that you can make a darn good record with ten tracks recorded live in one take with no separation and a questionable listening situation, in front of an audience who expects out-loud explanations on every mic positioning move, maybe you realized this stuff is hard... That's the point. The prizes are the cherry on top if you get them. 16 of you will and the mixes will be great at the very least. Hopefully better than mine which was done in the worse possible conditions.

Third. It does not matter (I must be getting old, please humor me). If you did it only for the prizes, I hope you get a prize or you missed the point.

Fourth. Our crew is badass. They know what we stand for or they do not work for us. We have a certain aesthetic, which is why our sponsors work with us and are so generous. It's open and democratic but it's rigorous and unwavering: If we feel something listening to your work, you're doing good. This is music after all, we are supposed to feel things. (Pain is not one of the feelings we are looking for, by the way. At least not for the Liza Colby Sound.)

Fifth. We're looking at almost 3000 mixes of the same song. You guessed it, I won't personally listen to all of them, I'd rather kill myself. That said, a vast majority of the mixes I have heard so far are exactly what I expected: wonderful and promising efforts at making a good sounding record that still need practice and more time honing the skills before being ready for primetime. All of which is very easy to tell and weeds out an impressively high amount of mixes out of the ~3K.

Sixth, we have a system. It works great. We have refined it with our internal pureMix.net contests for two years now. It's set up to make sure that it's as fair as possible. It involves spreadsheets, a 5 point rating system, blind listening, multiple passes on the top rounds and a serious dose of geekery. Our crew will handle the front lines and I'll listen, carefully, to scary amount of you guys' work. If only out of respect for the energy you put in. It'll probably eat a week of my life but that's ok. In the end, 16 of the best mixes will win something. For the others, we'll do it again next year, if this proves to be a globally positive experience for everyone, of course.

In closing, and very honestly, we did not expect this many entries. Our worry is not whether we can do it, it's whether we can do it IN TIME. If we fell we cannot listen fairly to everything in time for Gearfest 2013, we'll have to delay the winner's announcement deadline. And many people will be upset. And in the end it...well, you know what I mean, what really matters is we all learn to make better sounding records with the tools we have.

Thanks for playing with us.

Fab
 
I am sorry to burst your bubble but, a great mixing engineer can spot a truly great mix from a bunch of good mixes very very easily. A great painter can notice a great painting easily from a bunch of ordinary ones.

When you know your game it "doesn't matter about opinion", what is amazing, IS AMAZING. And if you are amazing, you will easily spot what's amazing.

Besides, even the best mixing engineers I know come to criticize their own mixes, and improve upon them. The best people are great auto-critics.

Dr Dre took 1 month to perfect his mixes, it's called being a perfectionist, and an insatiable auto-critic.




By the way your mix sounds very good! one of the best I've heard(If not the best). Gorgeous balance. One little niggle is that in the chorus the low end gets smaller(master buss comp kicking in?) than in the verse...the other very slight niggle(splitting hairs now) is that the vocal exhibits peaking frequencies from time to time, it's not awful at all but it just 100% controlled(just 95% lol) and it's not nice when it peaks(by the way how did you control those peaks?), the last niggle is that the solo guitar in the break doesn't really fill the gap which the vocal took as a lead. The vocal also changes character a bit in the last chorus and gets hollow at 1 time, maybe your automation kicking in, but normal people won't hear it I guess so no worries. Also the mix isn't very deep nor very big. But again ...splitting hairs here mate :D

Top job man!! I hope you get your twins soon :)

Thanks for the comments and the critiques, bro! I agree with what you said when you burst my bubble. The only thing I must have forgotten to mention was, there must be a crapload of people listening to these mixes. I remember doing some doo-doo calculation about how long it would take to listen to all the submissions. It showed me that unless Fab was listening, pretty much every day, as people were submitting (starting the day the contest launched), it was going to take many folks to do this, and not just Fab and Ben. From what fHumble just shared (thanks for the find, btw), this bit seems to be true -- that there was no way Fab was going to listen to every single one (but I'm sure we all figured that much when we saw the final number of entries). But even so, I wasn't saying that their team -- who would collectively be listening to everything -- wouldn't be able to spot what's good, great, amazing, whatever. Rather, I'm just not too sure that each individual person from this team would take the exact same candidates to the final judging pot for Fab to judge, if they were sanctioned, individually, with the job of listening to every single entry. And I'm also not too sure if this would indicate that these team members weren't great mixing engineers; I don't think it's that absolute. What if some of them are not mixing engineers at all? They don't have to be, although they likely are.

I just think we shouldn't really expect anything because, when there are almost 3000 entries (most of which we didn't even listen to), it would be crazy to think that it's impossible for someone else to beat us. Truth be told, I've felt that there's the potential that some of the folks who don't win will be kinda pissed and will try to initiate some sort of backlash. In fact (and this is for GaugeFX, too), when I posted that message, it wasn't even really for Gauge; more so, it was an attempt to try keeping folks in perspective after the contest is over, because the vast, vast majority of entrants will lose, of course. And I don't feel that there's a need for a Puremix backlash or bashing the folks who will win (as I've seen happen in contests before, like a couple Pensado ones, lol); and since this is like the biggest one ever, I thought there might be the potential for an even bigger, unfortunate backlash. When they pick their winners, I have no doubt in my mind that they would have chosen the folks they wanted.

Still, what you're saying is true -- a truly great engineer will be able to spot a great mix. But if there are 100 great mixes out of the 3000, there are going to be really fine lines (very subjective things) that will dictate how they will choose the "greatest" of this theoretical 100 great mixes. I think Fab, Pensado, TLA, CLA, Marroquin, etc, are all great engineers, but would they all present the same 16 winners tomorrow as Fab is going to announce? Personally, I think the odds say there's a good chance they wouldn't. When we consider the 'why' in this, I guess this is what I was trying to articulate.

And thanks again for mix comments. Nice observation on the bass in the choruses. Funny enough, I automated each track to be lower in the verses, but I missed automating the bass down along with all the other elements. I didn't use any mix-buss compression or anything like that. I do remember leaving some of the peaks in the vocal but removed most of them. I did this with Pro-Q automation of many bands, having them aligned (with a very narrow Q) with the frequencies correlating to the peaking notes and harmonics. lol, I hate to say this in the Official thread, but I was running out of time when doing a lot of this, and I felt that I had automated so many of those peaks to the point that I may be destroying it too much. I didn't have time to debate myself because it was June 1st and time was literally running out. I hate being late to stuff like this so much. lol, I guess it's cuz I'm black. hahahahha! BTW, with the bass automation, it was the same thing -- when I noticed that I missed pulling it down in the verses along with everything else, I was REALLY pushing the deadline time. I described a lot of this in my description, btw. And having the guitar doing a little more in the solo section would have been great!

Thanks, bro! And as for getting those twins, PFFFFT -- yeah, right.
 
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I think it will be somewhat simple to whittle the list down to at least 500 initially. Here is how:

1. Didn't fallow the rules (easiest to toss out): I saw quite a few of these.
2. Crushed (pseudo mastered) mixes that distort aka 2 bus destruction: You can hear this quickly. Murdering dynamics is a bad idea.
3. Oddball stuff that misses the point: Obnoxious sample replaced drums, sped up mixes, slowed down mixes, crazy effects etc...
4. Out of phase mixes: Again easy to quickly hear and can.
5. Super out of balance mixes: Is her vocal so loud you can barely hear the other elements?

I think after you go through those it becomes a better pool of mixes and then you can apply more specific criteria that might take more than a few seconds of listening and going off of what I have listened to this probably gets the list under 1000 or so if I had to guess, maybe more.

I don't expect to win either, actually I would be quite surprised if I won anything in a contest with over 3k entries. I enjoyed mixing something I don't normally get to mix though.
 
Well , that all folks, resalts are on Fabs website.Congrats to all the winners !!
 
Wow! First winner's snare sound sucks big time :wtf:

Tell me about it! All the high end on that mix sounds like warbled f'n 92kbps mp3. It's messy, the vocal sound dull and lifeless and the drums are saturated to all hell and way too f'n loud. Pretty much an amateur hour mix. It's like they tried to make the band sound like Alice in chains or something... yuck. Terrible. This is starting to feel like a f***in joke! I don't think I will ever submit a mix to one of these contest ever again after listening to the winners mixes. Whoever judged and listened to these mixes is f'n deaf and blown out their ears. Either that or they just ran out of time and started picking stuff willy nilly..

Whatever... lesson learned here.
 
Well , that all folks, resalts are on Fabs website.Congrats to all the winners !!

WELL....FAB????? I never ever thought that my mix was a contender in the prizes so what I am about to say is not about the fact that I didn't get a place. This is not a sour-grapes rant. Its about the FACT that these winning mixes are NOWHERE near as competent as many others that I have heard here and on Soundcloud. I have been mixing as a professional sound engineer and mastering for over 30 years with several albums to my credit and I have a room that is a very good listening/mixing environment. If you Google my name, David Pendragon, you will see [under images] that I am sitting in The Powerstation USA in front of the Neve console. This is one of many studios that I have produced/engineered in. I only say that because it might help give me a little credibility and add a tiny bit of weight to what I am saying here..
I guess your 'very good' listening team and your own good self will feel that all of your decision making would never ever make everyone happy....but you really have to be joking if you consider some of these winning mix's are how you would mix this track yourself. I honestly think that someone lost the plot on this contest. I acknowledge that for many of the participants that the good came from the exercise of mixing and then comparing the results and discussing ways and means, however I am certain that we all thought that from the superb mixes presented by some folks that the one chosen as 'winner' would be nothing like the choices that your team have made.

To everyone who feels disappointed about the result I have one piece of advice to offer, please do not be disheartened and FOR GODS SAKE do not try to emulate the winning mix's as measure of how you should sound yourselves. :confused:
 
Congratulations to all who won! Enjoy your new gear and be sure to make good use of it! :thumbs up:
 
WELL....FAB????? I never ever thought that my mix was a contender in the prizes so what I am about to say is not about the fact that I didn't get a place. This is not a sour-grapes rant. Its about the FACT that these winning mixes are NOWHERE near as competent as many others that I have heard here and on Soundcloud. I have been mixing as a professional sound engineer and mastering for over 30 years with several albums to my credit and I have a room that is a very good listening/mixing environment. If you Google my name, David Pendragon, you will see [under images] that I am sitting in The Powerstation USA in front of the Neve console. This is one of many studios that I have produced/engineered in. I only say that because it might help give me a little credibility and add a tiny bit of weight to what I am saying here..
I guess your 'very good' listening team and your own good self will feel that all of your decision making would never ever make everyone happy....but you really have to be joking if you consider some of these winning mix's are how you would mix this track yourself. I honestly think that someone lost the plot on this contest. I acknowledge that for many of the participants that the good came from the exercise of mixing and then comparing the results and discussing ways and means, however I am certain that we all thought that from the superb mixes presented by some folks that the one chosen as 'winner' would be nothing like the choices that your team have made.

To everyone who feels disappointed about the result I have one piece of advice to offer, please do not be disheartened and FOR GODS SAKE do not try to emulate the winning mix's as measure of how you should sound yourselves. :confused:

Well, I had a quick listen, & I very much agree with you, David...I too didn't think I had a snowball's chance in hell of getting near the pointy end of the field - but I'm always hopeful nonetheless... Like you, I'm anything but delighted with the choices, but in all honesty, I can't say I'm really surprised.

I have a personal (somewhat pesemistic) motto in life: "Expect the worst, and be pleasantly surprised when it doesn't happen." It seems pleasant surprises will have to wait for the moment...

...Anyhow David, it was great getting acquainted with by means of this little comp... That's just one of the good things that has come of it.
 
Be proud of your mix; this has an infinitely greater value than a materialist piece of gear.
 
I guess your 'very good' listening team and your own good self will feel that all of your decision making would never ever make everyone happy....but you really have to be joking if you consider some of these winning mix's are how you would mix this track yourself. I honestly think that someone lost the plot on this contest. I acknowledge that for many of the participants that the good came from the exercise of mixing and then comparing the results and discussing ways and means, however I am certain that we all thought that from the superb mixes presented by some folks that the one chosen as 'winner' would be nothing like the choices that your team have made.

To everyone who feels disappointed about the result I have one piece of advice to offer, please do not be disheartened and FOR GODS SAKE do not try to emulate the winning mix's as measure of how you should sound yourselves. :confused:

Pretty much how I am feeling about this right now. I mean, I'm genuinely shocked at these results. Out of 2800+ mixes, how on earth did that mix even make it past the first round of listening??? I would have canned it on the first listen for a number of reasons. I seriously don't get it. It's obvious that no one with any actual talent or critical listening skills chose this mix. Or any of the other 15 for that matter. I'ts probably some friend of friend thing going down. That's what it feels like.

I listened to last years winner for this contest and that mix was actually really good and felt great for the song. Very well done. This year? Am I in the twilight zone or what?

Puremix lost total credibility with me on this decision. If that's a first place mix, then it's a sad day for skilled mixing engineers around the world.
 
Thanks for the comments and the critiques, bro! I agree with what you said when you burst my bubble. The only thing I must have forgotten to mention was, there must be a crapload of people listening to these mixes. I remember doing some doo-doo calculation about how long it would take to listen to all the submissions. It showed me that unless Fab was listening, pretty much every day, as people were submitting (starting the day the contest launched), it was going to take many folks to do this, and not just Fab and Ben. From what fHumble just shared (thanks for the find, btw), this bit seems to be true -- that there was no way Fab was going to listen to every single one (but I'm sure we all figured that much when we saw the final number of entries). But even so, I wasn't saying that their team -- who would collectively be listening to everything -- wouldn't be able to spot what's good, great, amazing, whatever. Rather, I'm just not too sure that each individual person from this team would take the exact same candidates to the final judging pot for Fab to judge, if they were sanctioned, individually, with the job of listening to every single entry. And I'm also not too sure if this would indicate that these team members weren't great mixing engineers; I don't think it's that absolute. What if some of them are not mixing engineers at all? They don't have to be, although they likely are.

I just think we shouldn't really expect anything because, when there are almost 3000 entries (most of which we didn't even listen to), it would be crazy to think that it's impossible for someone else to beat us. Truth be told, I've felt that there's the potential that some of the folks who don't win will be kinda pissed and will try to initiate some sort of backlash. In fact (and this is for GaugeFX, too), when I posted that message, it wasn't even really for Gauge; more so, it was an attempt to try keeping folks in perspective after the contest is over, because the vast, vast majority of entrants will lose, of course. And I don't feel that there's a need for a Puremix backlash or bashing the folks who will win (as I've seen happen in contests before, like a couple Pensado ones, lol); and since this is like the biggest one ever, I thought there might be the potential for an even bigger, unfortunate backlash. When they pick their winners, I have no doubt in my mind that they would have chosen the folks they wanted.

Still, what you're saying is true -- a truly great engineer will be able to spot a great mix. But if there are 100 great mixes out of the 3000, there are going to be really fine lines (very subjective things) that will dictate how they will choose the "greatest" of this theoretical 100 great mixes. I think Fab, Pensado, TLA, CLA, Marroquin, etc, are all great engineers, but would they all present the same 16 winners tomorrow as Fab is going to announce? Personally, I think the odds say there's a good chance they wouldn't. When we consider the 'why' in this, I guess this is what I was trying to articulate.

And thanks again for mix comments. Nice observation on the bass in the choruses. Funny enough, I automated each track to be lower in the verses, but I missed automating the bass down along with all the other elements. I didn't use any mix-buss compression or anything like that. I do remember leaving some of the peaks in the vocal but removed most of them. I did this with Pro-Q automation of many bands, having them aligned (with a very narrow Q) with the frequencies correlating to the peaking notes and harmonics. lol, I hate to say this in the Official thread, but I was running out of time when doing a lot of this, and I felt that I had automated so many of those peaks to the point that I may be destroying it too much. I didn't have time to debate myself because it was June 1st and time was literally running out. I hate being late to stuff like this so much. lol, I guess it's cuz I'm black. hahahahha! BTW, with the bass automation, it was the same thing -- when I noticed that I missed pulling it down in the verses along with everything else, I was REALLY pushing the deadline time. I described a lot of this in my description, btw. And having the guitar doing a little more in the solo section would have been great!

Thanks, bro! And as for getting those twins, PFFFFT -- yeah, right.


1st I also don't trust the people working there, not everybody's a great mixing engineer I suppose in that TEAM. I feel you man. How can someone judge a great mix if he's not a great mixer himself/herself. There are things like this where you have to do it first to be able to know.

I also feel ya cause I got like 2 days to make that mix, and all the automations to tame that voice, my god :D I also was like, damn it, why didn't I have like 1 week lol. But anyways top effort man :) And u'll get your Twins next year for sure ;)

It's good to see perfectionist people and actually passionate mixing engineers like you on here :) Cheerz bro! keep the spirits high!! :)
 
I don't necessarily disagree with any of these sentiments, but I'm starting to feel really glad I didn't win.
 
Hey I think that the number one mix is pretty good. In the sense that it didn't hurt my ears(except the last chorus), the elements were defined, the voice wasn't annoying(although a bit buried in the mix), the mix had a natural sound to it, although the voice was drowned in the last chorus. Low end punch was there, bass definition was there, guitar and snare sounded proper natural and vintage.

I also hear some bad sibilances in the 2nd chorus.

But the mixer is good as he took the effort to raise the level of the solo guitar in the break.


The 3rd mix is a bit of a joke though, I heard that annoying hum sound at the beginning of the first chorus, and the mix was not amazing.



I like the first mix. Although it's not a super high professional/polished level in terms of sonics and highly precise nor spectacular(unique fx etc), precision and dimension(I wouldn't expect CLA or Massenburg or Michael Brauer to do ordinary mixes), it's still a top notch ordinary mix.

Congrats to the winner!
 
Congrats to all the winners, but there is no winner number 12, but two elevens.... this one goes to eleven....
 
For those that are thinking that you have to be a recording tech, producer or musician to recognize a great mix, music or what have you, I have to strongly disagree.

Music that is made or produced to impress one's peers has sadly missed the point. It usually ends up sounding really technical and pretentious; Music is produced to invoke and convey feelings and emotions so when it's done correctly, just about any human on the planet can make a judgment as to if it has hit its mark or not.

Apparently, if you want to get an emotional response out of Audio Techs, all you have to do is hold a contest and pick someone else's mix as a winner ;)
 
Ahah, ok, is today the 1st april? Is this an April's fool?
I can definitely say the puremix team does have SENSE OF HUMOR!
At the first moment I thought I was the only one disappointed with results... I thought "Hm, ok, just matter of taste"... But then I read some of your comments here... And then... I remembered these words that I'd like to remind you guys:

"The 16 winners will be picked by Fab Dupont on a basis of mixing skills, tone crafting, use of space, taste and creativity."

WOW...
And in the instruction document, as rule:

"Please include a detailed description of the gear you used in your song description (software & hardware). Also, do not hesitate to mention your artistic intentions, especially if you encountered technical restrictions. Only mixes fulfilling these requirements will be considered for the contest."

But...In the #3 I can't see any description... Hm...

Don't want to be polemic, just objective.
Puremix guys have probably put tickets with names in a beautiful top hat and then they blindly took winners from there.
Or maybe... Did they use some LSD?
Who knows.

As you already noticed, there were many entries that really deserved to win.... But... Hey, C'EST LA VIE!
Congrats to winners though!
 
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For those that are thinking that you have to be a recording tech, producer or musician to recognize a great mix, music or what have you, I have to strongly disagree.

Music that is made or produced to impress one's peers has sadly missed the point. It usually ends up sounding really technical and pretentious; Music is produced to invoke and convey feelings and emotions so when it's done correctly, just about any human on the planet can make a judgment as to if it has hit its mark or not.

Apparently, if you want to get an emotional response out of Audio Techs, all you have to do is hold a contest and pick someone else's mix as a winner ;)

Point me to any top tier world class mixing/mastering engineer who's not a passionate audiotech and an in born perfectionist.

Good luck ;)
 
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