Multi track Echo/Latency problem?

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MusicMan1994

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Alright so here it is, currently I'm using an Alesis Studio 12R mixer and a Behringer UCA222 interface. I'm trying Audacity and also Reaper for recording software. The problem I'm having is this. On the front of my mixer there's a headphone jack so I plug in and I can hit a button that says master (if clicked out) and tape (if clicked in.) If I click the master I can hear what I am currently recording however if I want to multi track to hear what I'm recording AND hear what I've already recorded I have to hit the tape button. The problem is that when I do this I get an echo in my headphones which throws me off. So if I record guitar first then want to add vocals, as I sing I hear a slight delay of what I'm singing. How can I fix this?

I should also mention that if I have what's already been recorded play through my computer speakers (say I'm laying down a guitar solo and I don't need the mic) and use the master (so I hear what I'm currently playing in the phones) than there's no issue. But I can't do this with vocals or else the mic will pickup what's coming out of the speakers.

In essence, is there anyway to hear what I've recorded and what I'm recording at the same time without this annoying echo?
 
Record (in mono) from Aux 1 and use inputs 11/12 for computer playback. You could also record from Aux 2, but any adjustment to the fader would affect the recording.
 
Just tried it, the problem now is this. I plugged my guitar into aux one (which is also on channel 11/12) and it didn't pick anything up, so I put it back into channel 2. I also hooked up the RCA output to the left/right inputs on channel 11/12 (using RCA to 1/4th inch adapters). The problem here is that I get an even worse echo and it ends up on the actual recording because in order to hear playback I have to use the volume slider on channel 11/12.
 
That Berry 222(202) is a handy device, vastly better than built in sound and well up to duping tapes etc but it is very cheap!

I know the box says "Ultra low latency" They lie. I have not done a proper test but I cannot see them getting close to RME figures for 20 quid!

You could try the Behringer site to see if they have any better drivers or try ASIO4ALL but I hold out little hope of improvement. People's sensitivity to latency varies and it also depends upon what exactly you are wanting to do (a bit of "ego" verb wash on a singer can be quite late) but if you want the lowest possible delay the best AI on the market for the money is the NI KA6. If cash is tight a second hand M-A fast track pro is also suprisingly swift for an oldie....Oh! The Roland AI's also have a good rep but I have not used one nor seen a review specifying latency.

Dave.
 
As far as I can tell the Fast Track Pro has a simple analog input monitoring setup, so it would be true zero latency. My routing suggestion above is also zero latency.
 
Suggestion: forget the mixer/UCA222, and get yourself a true audio interface that allows direct monitoring. Read the sticky at the top of this section of the forum about using mixers for recording.
 
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bouldersoundguy said:
As far as I can tell the Fast Track Pro has a simple analog input monitoring setup, so it would be true zero latency. My routing suggestion above is also zero latency.
Click to expand...

Yes BG it does have a mon'mix' knob but I took it that the OP wanted to monitor previous tracks and play/record along with them?
And Yes Mike. I AM suggesting an AI but there is no reason he can't utilize the mixer as well, in fact if he got the KA6 he would have 4 mic tracks.

Dave.
 
ecc83 said:
Yes BG it does have a mon'mix' knob but I took it that the OP wanted to monitor previous tracks and play/record along with them?
Click to expand...

Which is what the monitor mix knob does, it lets the user hear the inputs and the playback at the same time. My routing suggestion above does the same things, records the inputs and provides a way to hear them and the playback at the same time with no latency.
 
bouldersoundguy said:
Which is what the monitor mix knob does, it lets the user hear the inputs and the playback at the same time. My routing suggestion above does the same things, records the inputs and provides a way to hear them and the playback at the same time with no latency.
Click to expand...

I tried it out, but I get this weird echo that reverberates and this time it's captured on the recording. As for knobs involving playback I only have a phones/monitor knob and the stereo aux return knob. Also I tried recording from the aux 1 and then 2, neither picked up my guitar, they also happen to be on channel 11/12.

I was hoping to avoid getting a new recording setup but if that's the only way a buddy of mine is willing to sell me his old protools/interface. He picked up the new protools ten/interface.
In your opinions would this be good? I mostly just want to hit record and go, nothing super fancy. However I do a lot of multi tracking, I like to play guitar, add vocals, throw down some bass and drums, maybe add in some piano as well. And with the echo it's almost impossible to do (especially with the drums, there's like a 1.2 second delay, it's pretty bad)
 
Ignore the talk of the "mix" knob. That's on the Fast Track Pro we mentioned as an interface that's meant to do what you want to do.

To do what I was suggesting you have to connect the Aux 1 and 2 outputs to the interface's inputs, and the interface's outputs to Channel 11/12. Set the headphone switch to Main. Turn off any input monitoring on the interface and in your software. Connect your mic to a channel, set the fader to 0, set the master fader to 0, adjust the gain until the meter bounces around between about -6dB and +6dB, create a track and arm it, turn up the Aux 1 knob on that channel. Then start the playback. Your mix of existing tracks should be peaking at about -12dBFS on the main meter in your DAW. On the Alesis put the 11/12 fader to 0, set the gain so the meters peak around 0dB. Now use the faders to balance the live and playback signals in the headphones.
 
I tried the setup and I'm still having issues (maybe I'm not connecting right?) I'm very much a noob at recording.

So if I were to buy the Ka6 I wouldn't have this problem? Any problems I should be aware of before I drop 240 on it?
Or maybe I should get the fast track pro? What would be the best in your respective opinions? Maybe I'm asking for a lot latency wise,
but ideally I want to be able to record a track, then record another track. I want to hear the first track while recording the second track and I want to hear the second track (currently being recorded) the same way I heard the first one when it was recorded. No delays. That and I'd like it to be consistent whether I'm just adding guitar and vocals, or if I'm throwing drums and piano and bass on top of it all.
 
You need an audio interface with the ability to direct monitor. Direct monitor = NO latency.
 
Pretty much all proper audio interfaces offer low latency or zero latency input monitoring. If you want zero latency look for something with a simple mix knob on the front. Anything with DSP input monitoring software is not true zero latency but may be sufficiently fast for you.
 
You should be able to create your own zero latency direct monitoring using your mixer. I'd suggest similar to bouldersoundguy but the other way around.

Feed the main outs of your mixer into your Behringer and the Behri outputs into one of the stereo channels. Then create your headphone mix using Aux 1. Keep the fader for the stereo return firmly down but turn up Aux 1 on your mic, guitar and the stereo return, balancing it to sound good.

Now the drawback of this...your mixer (as far as I can see) won't let you do a pre fade listen on the Aux so you'll have to take your feed directly out of the Aux. For this to work properly, you'll need some kind of headphone amp--an old hifi amp with headphone out would do it but, otherwise, Behringer make a cheapie headphone amp that sells for about $35.

In the long term, just using an interface probably makes sense but you should be able to kill the latency problem with (mostly) what you already have.
 
You could also use my method but record from the inserts instead of the Aux.

One thing that hasn't been asked: are you trying to use amp sims live? That requires that you monitor guitar through software which will add latency.
 
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