Getting "Right-brained"

  • Thread starter Thread starter Wonderlick
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Haha, the Ramones just bled rock and roll, and barely needed instruments to be badasses. For a short while I thought Joey said "Be tolerant with a baseball bat"...

Yeah, the muse is what I'm in search of - a lark, of course . It's tricky because a I agree, at times when you're no longer searching for something, it comes to you. She's the carrot at the end of the stick, and I'll always be chasing her, but was looking for shortcuts - not that they exist other than to just be patient and practice. :)

Yeah, most of those books were lame - I feared that going in, because at heart I know that only I can write what I write, and work towards that. It just seemed like the same exercises came into play ad nauseum, and having made a rather strong attempt at them, realized it is easier just to put letters in stanzas.

I like rhyme - I have a tough time coming up with melodies in general, and the rhyming aspect provides my song with more flow and pop. They tend to be a bit cheesey, but like everyone else, I can come up with some good ones every so often. Rhyming also helps me focus a little more in the writing process itself - it's limiting of my vocabulary, no doubt, but does provide a sense of structure.

Oh hey, what's up Whitestrat! I'm in Alton, actually - St. Louis is just easier to explain to folks I've just met. Haha, well, "fortunately", I've got angst on lock right now. 33, just graduated college with a degree in history, moved back to the StL, and haven't found squat for work. It's all good still, I've been a handyman for hire, which has taught me some things and gotten me by, but now I'm ready to go back to work. Couple that with the fact that I'm pretty anti-state, livin' at home, and I'm boilin'!

And most of my stuff reflects that - well, mainly, my love of history, the man v. state struggle, etc. Like Rush's 2112, but by a third grader.

I've only recently been putting music together, and finding this forum has been incredible for me, really. Listening to the songs that are written and recorded, whether my cup of tea or not, is totally motivating.

D
 
I've written/co-written a bunch of songs about "the struggle": The abondonement of Saigon, Pol POt, The dispossession of the Sumi lao in the Phillipines, Laos' revolution/re evolution, the slaughter of Australian aboriginies, the selling off of worker's rights, Coffe table photographer morales, the true legacy of JFK, etc etc. IT CAN be musical, serious and fun too.
As previoulsy mentionbed, I have not talent with melody but I can do a few other things AND I collaborate - quite a bit through the MP3 Clinic.
Give it a go.
 
I don't know if this has been mentioned before but there are some interesting insights into lyric writing in this old sound on sound series of articles (Google sound on sound lyric writing for the URL. I can't link directly because of the 10 post restriction)
 
There have been some really, really lyrically dumb songs written over the years that have been very successful. I'm 100% convinced that the content of one's lyrics does not matter at all, and all that matters is melody, phrasing, and delivery. It doesn't matter what you say, all that matters is how you say it.
 
Greg_L said:
the content of one's lyrics does not matter at all, and all that matters is melody, phrasing, and delivery. It doesn't matter what you say, all that matters is how you say it.
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I think this is often truer for those listening to the song than it is for the ones writing them.
 
I dig rock and roll music, I could really get it on in that scene
I think I could say something if you know what I mean
But if I really say it, the radio won't play it
Unless I lay it between the lines...

...Peter, Paul and Mary...

Jumped in my head as I read through the thread

Another perfect rhyme?
 
Anyway, to the OP, Neil Peart wrote a lot about politics and society, so don't let that hinder you. There's plenty of that type of lyric. Part of writing is finding the right place and time I used to write quite a bit, but when I moved to a bigger house, the lyrics dried up. I think sometimes our lyrical creativity needs some form of pain or tribulation to come up with those great words. Keep trying. If you're sitting at your desk writing, try going to the park and sitting on a bench.
 
Singing about history a "no no"......what a load of crap. before the written word, lyrics & poetry were the way history was remembered. The blues started & folk music were used to spread news from town to town. We are bards and it's part of our job. The best lyrics are the ones that have meaning to you.
How about trying this. Get a theme in your head. write three 4+ line paragraphs about it. Don't worry about flow or rhyme schemes, just get the ideas down. If a chronology develops, reorder them accordingly. Once you have your "story line" established write a few summary lines that would apply to all three.
Take the last paragraph you wrote and read it out loud. You may even want to read it to a click track. Start rewriting the lines until they flow easily. The syllables will take on a rhythm eventually. If you already have music written, read over that. When forced to choose from Grammar or Melody err on the side of melody. Keep going until you can get through it with your "outdoor" voice, without tripping. Now you have your chorus/refrain.
Repeat this process for the other three paragraphs and don't sweat this not feeling "done". I rewrite right up to the last take of the recording session. Sometimes this is where the trouble parts become more obvious.
Set any "gems" you come up with, that don't fit up against the other verses, aside (if you decide a middle 8 is needed, you'll be glad you did).
All roads lead to Rome, but you stated you "come from a very logical and analytical background in terms of writing,", so maybe you'll find this approach helpful.
 
Wow, great thoughts guys n gals. And I think that's a good idea David - I'll definitely give that a shot, about just writing without thought to music or melody first, and then bending those ideas around into a song that I already have written.

But also, good advice from some of the others on, to a certain degree, not really giving a sh*t. Deep down, I don't, I just find it respectable and mesmerizing those that can connect to others through their words. Currently I'm working on a song about a guy who's wanted by the law for shooting some men on his private land - but using this as an example, the hangups I find are that it seems generic. But, to a certain degree, that's okay (I'm starting to believe) because in a way the music behind it is also a voice, and can help carry the rudimentary vocals.

And Grim and Greg, you're both right, and these two perspectives combined really put things into perspective for me - in the sense that when I hear a song whose lyrics I "get" or enjoy, it may be just the delivery. But damn if I don't push too hard or overthink the situation when I'm trying to write them myself.

D
 
Wonderlick said:
just writing without thought to music or melody first, and then bending those ideas around into a song that I already have written.
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To me, that's a skill in itself. I don't go for 'rules' like not using imperfect rhymes or having everything rhyme or whatever the rules are. Neither do I believe that you first must know or master the rules in order to break them. I approach songwriting the same way I approach recording, not so much that anything goes, rather everything goes ~ but not anytime.
Wonderlick said:
I just find it respectable and mesmerizing those that can connect to others through their words.
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Quite often when people are singing on my bits, they'll look at the lyrics and ask me what the song or line means because there's a whole world of depth behind the apparent flippancy and word games. They feel it connects once they're aware but I never feel like it does.

Wonderlick said:
when I hear a song whose lyrics I "get" or enjoy, it may be just the delivery.
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I've long felt that the way many lyrics are entombed within a melody and placed within the overall thrust of the song can help one to really notice what is being said and gather meaning in a way that you simply would not if it was merely spoken or written down.
Supercreep has this fantastic song called "October" which contain the lines "Will I make it home walking/or will they carry my coffin ?". The way it's sung and the way this meshes with the music makes it a great line and points to a weight of meaning. But if I saw it written on a wall or in a book, I'd hardly notice it.
On the other hand, RAMI's line "I didn't see the writing on the wall ~ until it fell on me" would crack me up however it was sung. As a line in itself, it's priceless. As a statement, it's a great ~and usable~ quote.

Wonderlick said:
But damn if I don't push too hard or overthink the situation when I'm trying to write them myself.
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I remember how I always used to want to write lyrics. I sat down on two consecutive days in the summer of 1983 and forced myself to come up with two songs that I was really pleased with. Then I didn't pursue it for another 9 years or so. If I ever tried, I'd get into overthink and analyse mode. It may sound really clichéd but it was when I stopped trying to write lyrics and just wrote them that they flowed like snot during a cold. Now I trot them out all the time. I keep trying to stop. But at the moment, I just won't. Whether they're "good" or not is besides the point. Funnilly enough, some of the ones I think are hopeless are the ones that some people think are really good, while some of the ones I think I should get feted for {:D} bypass all known radars !
[h=1][/h][h=1][/h][h=1][/h][h=1][/h]
 
Ok I was gonna post something but then I went off on a huge tangent.

I've always had the opposite problem, I write too much. Basically I have lyrical ideas floating around all the time, like jigsaw pieces though they rarely ever fit...

I find writing a very meditative practice and you need to disassociate yourself from traditional rhyme reason and genre because borders DON'T inpire.

Most of my work is storytelling, but most irish music is story based, I write of people I know, real people, real events and often I exagerate or lie to get the story to move forward, every single moment has a song waiting to be wrote. Right now I'm sitting here telling you this and out there there are larks singing, a beautiful spring sunrise, snow on the mourne mountains, the smell of stale cigarettes in the room, the whir of computer fans the taste of cold coffee on my lips, and of course a pain in my head. so many beautiful things in just one instant.

I live in my right brain, until I'm in studio, its the only time I feel fully balanced. But three things I'm going to suggest to help you improve. Get a small diary, something to carry with you, pick a random instant during the day and write whatever feels right about it, be it the welcoming smile of the woman in the takeaway who knows your face but who's youth is just starting to age. write about what horror she's feeling towards the unknown and what joy she feels at just how much her son or daughter is doing her proud, write about her anger at the 70 hour weeks she needs to work to just keep a modest roof over her head. Write what she's thinking, then the next day, write about the car that you saw with a missing hubcap. you need to reinvent the ordinary to discover just how much of an extrodinary world we live in.

Second write a letter to an old friend, someone you truely miss but haven't heard from in a long time. tell them just some of the stupid things that you've done like pouring an extra spoon of coffee in, or tell them about some major event they missed, when the letters done, take it to a place that meant a lot to the two of you, set it alight and let the ashes scatter, I guarentee you'll be inspired.

Third find your older songs, stuff you never done much with, pick lines and words that you like, things that ring and try putting them together on a page, this will take a lot of reworking but some of your best gold will come from here. because you can finally unite emotion or emotions you felt over the space of months years decades into a potent tincture of pure creativity.

when you start seeing these beautys you'll worry more about getting the bloody lyrics out of your head let alone getting them in,

I'll leave you with this, its the chorus of a song I've been working on for a long time and until i finalise it i'll never forget the words...

"I, I remembered something the other day, but I'm sure you've thrown it away. The pewter bracelet with the purple roses on it, I knew you'd want it. Ain't it strange all the funny things I think, When I've had to much to drink but I'm sure, You've heard me say it before, but this time I mean it. I want you, back, for, good"
 
GazEcc said:
Second write a letter to an old friend, someone you truely miss but haven't heard from in a long time. tell them just some of the stupid things that you've done like pouring an extra spoon of coffee in, or tell them about some major event they missed, when the letters done, take it to a place that meant a lot to the two of you, set it alight and let the ashes scatter, I guarentee you'll be inspired.
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I tried that. I got arrested for 'breaking and entering' and eventually done for attempted arson.The bedroom of a magistrate was not a good idea ! :D
 
GazEcc said:
Ok I was gonna post something but then I went off on a huge tangent.

I've always had the opposite problem, I write too much. Basically I have lyrical ideas floating around all the time, like jigsaw pieces though they rarely ever fit...

I find writing a very meditative practice and you need to disassociate yourself from traditional rhyme reason and genre because borders DON'T inpire.

Most of my work is storytelling, but most irish music is story based, I write of people I know, real people, real events and often I exagerate or lie to get the story to move forward, every single moment has a song waiting to be wrote. Right now I'm sitting here telling you this and out there there are larks singing, a beautiful spring sunrise, snow on the mourne mountains, the smell of stale cigarettes in the room, the whir of computer fans the taste of cold coffee on my lips, and of course a pain in my head. so many beautiful things in just one instant.

I live in my right brain, until I'm in studio, its the only time I feel fully balanced. But three things I'm going to suggest to help you improve. Get a small diary, something to carry with you, pick a random instant during the day and write whatever feels right about it, be it the welcoming smile of the woman in the takeaway who knows your face but who's youth is just starting to age. write about what horror she's feeling towards the unknown and what joy she feels at just how much her son or daughter is doing her proud, write about her anger at the 70 hour weeks she needs to work to just keep a modest roof over her head. Write what she's thinking, then the next day, write about the car that you saw with a missing hubcap. you need to reinvent the ordinary to discover just how much of an extrodinary world we live in.

Second write a letter to an old friend, someone you truely miss but haven't heard from in a long time. tell them just some of the stupid things that you've done like pouring an extra spoon of coffee in, or tell them about some major event they missed, when the letters done, take it to a place that meant a lot to the two of you, set it alight and let the ashes scatter, I guarentee you'll be inspired.

Third find your older songs, stuff you never done much with, pick lines and words that you like, things that ring and try putting them together on a page, this will take a lot of reworking but some of your best gold will come from here. because you can finally unite emotion or emotions you felt over the space of months years decades into a potent tincture of pure creativity.

when you start seeing these beautys you'll worry more about getting the bloody lyrics out of your head let alone getting them in,

I'll leave you with this, its the chorus of a song I've been working on for a long time and until i finalise it i'll never forget the words...

"I, I remembered something the other day, but I'm sure you've thrown it away. The pewter bracelet with the purple roses on it, I knew you'd want it. Ain't it strange all the funny things I think, When I've had to much to drink but I'm sure, You've heard me say it before, but this time I mean it. I want you, back, for, good"
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Lol. What? :laughings:
 
Haha, nice. I almost tossed Eric Idle under the "most underrated songwriters thread" - The Galaxy Song is great!

And maybe I'll try that writing a letter and burning it up deal - I got some old girlfriends that I should have probably written long ago - my fear though is that I'll actually drop one of them in the mailbox...

But I have gotten out of meditation and all of that lately - sometimes, with the stresses of life, things like exercise and meditation can get tossed to the wayside - which always pisses me off, because that's when I need it most. One of these days it'll all come together.

And the diary is something I should have done a long time ago - and I'm going to start. The songs I've written somewhat resemble journal entries, and I do have a couple clever lines from when I first started playing guitar - maybe I'll try and rewrite them with the five or six new chords I've learned since then. :thumbs up:

D
 
Wonderlick said:
I almost tossed Eric Idle under the "most underrated songwriters thread" -
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I don't know about Eric Idle's songs so much, but in the Rutles' movie "All you need is cash", the songs are written by Neil Innes who used to be a leading member of the Bonzo dog doo dah band. His Beatle parodies are absolutely incredible, pretty much on a par with the tunes they take off ~ and I say that as a lover of the Beatles' music for the last 37 years. The lyrics are truly funny, they evoke, in the most cynical manner, all the stages of development in 60s songwriting {a good example being the piss take of the deep acid opening of "I am the walrus";'I am he /as you are he /as you are me /and we are all together' becoming 'I know /you know /what you know /and you should know by now /that you're not me' in "Piggy in the middle" or the Indianesque Harrison songs "Love you to" and "Within you, without you" masquerading as "Nevertheless"}, the music is top notch, stealing without theft and fusing Beatleish parts. Comedy doesn't often do much for me but the music of the Rutles nearly always makes me laugh, even when I feel sick like I did today. And the songs really do stand on their own. Even my kids like them. My younger son can never remember whether "Help !" parodies "Ouch !" or vice versa.....
 
Yeah, for me, comedy in music generally only works when the music is not intended to be funny, but strikes me in a funny way. Sometimes I wonder if I get the humor in the lyric or create it myself. Who knows, and to a certain degree, who cares.

I had forgotten all about The Rutles! I'm a big Beatles and Python fan, just kinda slipped through the cracks of my mind. I'll check this Innes character out though. I'm all about funny cynicism!

D
 
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