Red Book Questions...

[dudernut]

Hello everyone,

Noob alert (one who may be in over his head)! I am finishing up mixing on my band's album, and after a simple master, we are going to be faced with the matter of turning these into actual CDs. I have been reading up a bit on Red Book standards to ensure full marketability and device compatibility, but I want to make sure that all bases are covered before we pay to have a bunch of discs pressed and wrapped. A bandmate has a full (possibly older) version of Wavelab, but does not really have experience with Red Book formatting.

I guess I am confused on the concept in general. For instance, having no experience with Red Book, will we find it complicated to encode everything? We will find out soon enough by trying, but I want to be somewhat prepared when the time comes. Also, I know that Wavelab will assist us in creating the "gold master" disc, but is this physical disc necessary when we send off for replication, or are the WAV files themselves altered to fit the standard (I told you I'm a noob). If not, it also crossed my mind to use one of the less expensive CD duplication services that offer high-grade CD-Rs and tell them to leave the data blank, and we can burn them ourselves using WL. Does this make sense, and would it create a virtual equivalent of a commercial disc? I realize we would need to have them wrapped at this point to push any on local record shops, but I really do not expect much commercial gain from this. We do, however, want it to be available on iTunes, Amazon, Spotify, etc, and it seems they all require Red Book standards. As a side note, we are aware that we need our ISRC ready before the final master. And sorry if my questions are all over the place, I just feel lost.

 

[Massive Master]

One thing I can tell you for sure -- If you're not absolutely 100% positive that the disc you're sending in is within spec, don't send it. Especially with short-run places ("We just copy what you send us..."). Some get around that by asking for straight PCM files written to the same spec as what would be on a compliant disc (stereo interleaved, 16-bit PCM data at 44.1kHz) and then authoring from there (which is fine, assuming they know WTF they're doing, which some actually do).

ISRC's won't be embedded into individual PCM files, but will be embedded into the PQ information in a properly formated and compliant disc.

Wavelab is certainly capable of the task -- And although it allows for "screwing things up rather royally" if you don't know what you're doing with it, it also has some sort of "Wizard" thing that checks for compliancy, although it doesn't tell you anything about what is and what isn't "normal and typical" --- For example, having x-number of frames between a track marker and the first purposeful oscillation --- That's not in the spec. It isn't "illegal" to have the first oscillation right up against a track marker. But it's not a very good idea... It allows a disc to be authored without 150 frames before the first start marker (taking it immediately out of compliance) although I *think* it will actually warn you about that.

Blah blah yada yada, if you want exactly what you're sending in to come back, send them the master disc if at all possible. If you need to send PCM files, make sure you have - I dunno, I usually default to about 10 frames of black at the head of every track. Some more, rarely less. And the guys at the short-run places probably aren't as detail-oriented as some others might be...

 

[cobaltaudio]

Hello everyone,
I have been reading up a bit on Red Book standards to ensure full marketability and device compatibility, but I want to make sure that all bases are covered before we pay to have a bunch of discs pressed and wrapped.

This is one of the reasons that you would ask a mastering engineer to do your final master disc - but if that's not an option then my advice is don't get too carried away.

Also, I know that Wavelab will assist us in creating the "gold master" disc, but is this physical disc necessary when we send off for replication, or are the WAV files themselves altered to fit the standard (I told you I'm a noob). If not, it also crossed my mind to use one of the less expensive CD duplication services that offer high-grade CD-Rs and tell them to leave the data blank, and we can burn them ourselves using WL.

Most duplication centers will take a physical CD master, and literally just duplicate it - it's not any more complicated than that.
If you want to have the manufacturer create the master disc, this can be an extra cost, but all they need is the .wav files, and again all they will do is put the .wavs onto a master disc and check error rates of the disc etc.
Some of my clients like to use a DDP file to send to the manufacturers (if the factory can deal with them) as they have an error checking system built into the actual files so you can be sure they arrived in one piece.
This is unlikely to be something that you would do at home though.

Regarding the burning discs at home idea, in my experience it's just not worth it. The few pence you save on each disc is negligible when you consider the time it will take you to actually do, the chance of overheating your disk drive and wrecking it (the heat will increase your error rate) and that you don't have the quality guarantee from the factory that the discs are burned properly - again with a low error rate.

Why all the talk of error rates? Well the higher the error rate, the more likely the disc becomes unreadable or doesn't play back properly etc. etc.


In short, either just send the duplicators an audio disc that you are happy with (with an identical backup copy) and they'll duplicate it for you, OR send your final mixes to someone who masters professionally and they will generate a physical disc or a disc image, or a DDP or whatever - then send that to the duplicators.

Hope that's helpful!

 

[agreatheight]

Most places that will replicate / duplicate will help you with these types of questions. If they don't, you should look at other companies. And many will "red-book" your files for you, for a low cost. I am not talking mastering, though, no compression or eq'ing.

 

[Massive Master]

Actually, that's *REAL* mastering -- Creating the production master changing the audio as little as possible if any at all.

I miss those days... It was all about sound quality back then...

 

[dudernut]

Thanks for the help, everyone...A few things I wanted to clear up though. It is my understanding that any CD can be Red Book comliant, correct? Assuming this is true, any company that duplicates should have the ability to handle this task. However, I have read horror stories of people having to spend their own funds cleaning up a mess because of these standards. Should I simply be very clear with my communication and trust they know what they're doing (as long as I manage to write the master disc correctly in WL)? Or does anyone have a reputable (and affordable) duplication company to suggest?...keeping in mind that I also want commercial-quality packaging.

 

[Waltz Mastering]

Thanks for the help, everyone...A few things I wanted to clear up though. It is my understanding that any CD can be Red Book comliant, correct? Assuming this is true, any company that duplicates should have the ability to handle this task. However, I have read horror stories of people having to spend their own funds cleaning up a mess because of these standards. Should I simply be very clear with my communication and trust they know what they're doing (as long as I manage to write the master disc correctly in WL)? Or does anyone have a reputable (and affordable) duplication company to suggest?...keeping in mind that I also want commercial-quality packaging.

Any cd can be compliant but I would use a very good media like JVC and not use any budget cd's. WL is definitely capable of assembling a compliant master cd. Just make sure to listen through it once it's printed so there are no suprises. Sometimes I'll send a duplicate cd as a safety.

For small or large runs, I would recommend www.discmakers.com They are affordable, fast, offer a lot of packaging options, easy to deal with, and the artwork looks great. If you are getting under 300 cd's it will most likely be duplicated (copied) were 300 and above will be replicated (glass master made and pressed). Good luck.

 

[jvwhite]

For small or large runs, I would recommend discmakers They are affordable, fast, offer a lot of packaging options, easy to deal with, and the artwork looks great. If you are getting under 300 cd's it will most likely be duplicated (copied) were 300 and above will be replicated (glass master made and pressed). Good luck.

I'm nothing against this since discmakers is a reputable brand for years. The catch is you pay more than what you get (based on my own experience). There's a lot of more affordable cd duplication companies that can provide such services that matches or even exceeds the quality provided by discmakers. One good cd duplication company is We Print Discs.

 

[Waltz Mastering]

There's a lot of more affordable cd duplication companies that can provide such services that matches or even exceeds the quality provided by discmakers.

Sure. There are a bunch of independent companies that do small runs, including Kunaki -- CD/DVD manufacturing and publishing service that have comparable pricing. The question is are they a broker for the bigger jobs or are they doing everything in house. The company that was mentioned, WPD only list over wrap which is not shrink wrap, but I don't know about them. My thing is I only recommend companies that I've used with a proven track record and I've sent DM literally hundreds of jobs and not one has got messed up. I also think they will match any price.

To be honest, I think you work for WMD since you've mentioned them in 3 out of your 4 post.

You Said:

I just purchased 1,000 CD's in Jewel Cases with 2 panel insert and tray card for only $1.40 per CD at We Print Discs.

Discmakers will do that same job for $999.