Shure sm7b questions

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Dsm1gb

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Hey everyone, my first post here as you can see.

I have a few questions regarding the shure sm7b.

I've been doing some hip hop style recordings, only for a hobbie. I've started out with poor equipment to try and become better on the worse possible equipment, and work my way up. I started out on a m-audio USB mic, moved to an At 2020 condensor mic with m-audio fast track pro Pre amp. I've finally decided to upgrade to something worth while, and have been looking at the Shure sm7b.

I've read that they require a very good Pre amp, is this true and any suggestions?

How does this mic work? What is all required? Phantom power?

Is this mic overkill? I have the money to spend, just not sure of maybe there's a better option that's more budget oriented as I'm just promoting myself as a hobby, nothing for commercial use.

Any suggestions or comments will help me very much, thanks!
 
From personal experience and from what others have said the SM7B is an extremely solid choice. A dynamic mic, it does not use phantom power but it does want a solid preamp and I'm not aware of any hard and fast rule of thumb on how to tell if any particular pre is suitable. I use mine with a Sound Devices USBPre 2.

As a budge alternative that supposedly sounds close to a SM7B you might consider a Mercenary Audio modded Shure SM58.

SM58 Microphone with Mercenary Audio Transformer

You'd have to ask Mercenary the preamp question.
 
Thanks for the reply, I'm just confused on how to power it then, I somehow thought all Pre amps carry the phantom power.
 
Dsm1gb said:
Thanks for the reply, I'm just confused on how to power it then, I somehow thought all Pre amps carry the phantom power.
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A dynamic mic requires no power; it generates a signal merely by receiving sound waves. I've never done this (maybe I'll try!) but it's my understanding that you can receive an audio signal by running your speakers (a dynamic mic is essentially a very small speaker) into a pre.

Only condenser mics and active ribbon mics require phantom power. Note that you NEVER apply phantom power to a passive ribbon. Dynamic mics don't give a damn whether phantom power is present or not.
 
Thank you for all your help!

So basically when I was using the condensor mic, I didnt really care for the sound as it kind of made my voice childish in a way, also it picked up hisses and just about everything else. I'm hoping that a dynamic mic will change that.
 
Dsm1gb said:
Thank you for all your help!

So basically when I was using the condensor mic, I didnt really care for the sound as it kind of made my voice childish in a way, also it picked up hisses and just about everything else. I'm hoping that a dynamic mic will change that.
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No. It won't. Well... not as much as you are hoping.

Everything adds noise to the signal chain, including the mic, but nothing adds as much noise as your environment. Noise is not cumulative... if your mic is a relatively noisy mic (as the SM7B is) you'll never notice if your room is even noiser and since it's a bitch to get even the quietest rooms down much below 30db you'll never hear the self-noise of the SM7B, or pretty much any mic.

I will concede that condenser mics are incredibly sensitive. My Sennheiser MK4 picks up shit that I'd swear was never there. But if you're in a noisy environment no mic in the world is going to give you satisfactory results. One thing that the SM7B has that the Mercenary (pretty sure) does not is a bass roll-off switch which will keep the mic from picking up noise below a certain level. But the only thing that will truly help is a quiet room. Or a relatively quiet room.
 
The SM7b is a very insensitive microphone, less sensitive even than the wimpy 57/58's and they in turn are some 6dB less sensitive than most modern dynamics.

Compound the problem with the Fast track pro, this has pretty clean but low gain pre amps and you will get a very weak recording. That said, you could be committing the noob error of recording way too hot. Your vocal levels should average -18dBFS in the DAW software (I am convinced this is where people go wrong with capacitor mics, they like to have a "fat" level and forget that the gain in the system is some 20dB up on a SM57 say)

I suggest that you borrow a 57/58 and see how it goes. For close voice it will probably be ok with the Pro and this will give you an idea whether a 7b is a wise choice. Note however that if you are going to get intimate with any cardiod mic, dynamic or cap', you will need a bass rolloff in the system but this is one of those few cases where you CAN "fix it in the mix"!
If level really is a problem you could investigate the Cloudlifter or an AI with more gain. The Focusrite range are said to be good here. The NI Ka6* would be fine I am sure and is generally the best sub £250 AI around atmo' IMHO. If you are still on XP look out for an Emu 0404 usb.

Ribbons and Spook Juice: Modern ribbons are perfectly safe here SO LONG AS THE CABLE IS PROPERLY AND SOLIDLY WIRED! But if I owned a $4000 vintage RCA or similar I agree, make DDSure +48V is orf!

*With the gains at max and a 57 I get a noise floor of -75dBFS (Tape Men would KILL for that!) but only in the wee small hours in a leafy suburb (Google Eth, NN5 5P* UK).

Dave.
 
Ok maybe I'm just stepping way out of my league because I don't understand a lot of this. All I've been doing is using audacity, a mic and the Pre amp, I'm not that good at understanding all this but thank you once again.
 
Dsm1gb said:
Ok maybe I'm just stepping way out of my league because I don't understand a lot of this. All I've been doing is using audacity, a mic and the Pre amp, I'm not that good at understanding all this but thank you once again.
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Naturally you don't understand much of what I wrote, this is the newb section! But you can learn and improve.

Computer audio recording is not as simple as just plugging a mic into a tape recorder (with the greatest respect to the analogue boys! I did that for 50years!) but "digital" is capabable of vastly better technical quality and for vastly less money. You already have a good Audio Interface in the Pro. Yes they are getting on a bit now but still capable of excellent results and best of all they are very reliable both electronically and in their driver stabilty with computers*. In fact I would go so far as to say if ANY computer/mac does not work with a Fast track pro the computer is bust!

Audacity is a great free app' but I strongly urge you to Google for and download the totally free MAGIX Samplitude Silver Cloud software (do not get confused with and sidetracked by Magic "Music maker" tat!) . This software (often refered to as a "Digital Audio Workstation" or DAW) looks and behaves like 90% of all other DAW software and will start you on the right road I am sure.

The SM7b is a fair chunk of cash, do try a 57/58 first.

*The key word here is "driver". No AI, no matter how good its electronic spec, is worth a pigs ear unless it has very good drivers written for it. M-Audio write some of the best.

Dave.
 
OMG can we please stop the madness. There is absolutely no reason whatsoever to buy any more gear. You should be able to make decent recordings with the At 2020. Work on that first.
 
chuckduffy said:
OMG can we please stop the madness. There is absolutely no reason whatsoever to buy any more gear. You should be able to make decent recordings with the At 2020. Work on that first.
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I don't think the OP was "mad" to enquire about the suitabilty of an SM7b?
Agreed, LDCapacitors are mainly the choice for studio "ballady/rock" vocals but the dynamic is often prefered for a more intimate vocal style.

If a noob had no mic and asked me what to get first (for you need more than one!) I would say a small D capacitor if mainly recording acoustic instruments, especially guitar, and a dynamic if mainly belting vocals and guitar cabs. The LDC is not the best choice in the small untreated rooms most of us have to contend with.

Dave.
 
I went to a SM7 / (57 is a close brother) because condensors were too sensitive and a hassle in drywall hell room.

The SM7 is great for crapo rooms and is known to be used even in the control rooms for overdubs or guitar work because they have that character of reducing the room importance. I love the SM7 and it ended alot of my mic swapping search. I do agree ecc83 that a SM57 with a little eq can come very close to the sound, slap on a p-filter in front.

Some condensors are so sensitve, one condenser LDC I had produced so much noise it was amazing, turned out it was picking up the fan noise through my ceiling vent, amplifying the attic air conditioner fan/blower!

I think I read Sherly Crow did a vocal track with the SM7 in the noisy control room, which is why the eng chose the SM7 to reduce the room effect, and that got me interested in the LDC dynamic.... its great , imo. especially for poorly sounding rooms.

I have a TASCAM 1641, and UX 2 both work fine with it...also use a outboard pre's too which only makes it easier to get volume from the dynamic shure. UX2 Line 6 has some really fun Vocal Pre-Amps and Compressors, Noise gates in front to help the volume and room noise reduction too.
 
If it's possible to rent or borrow one (plus maybe a few others) you can try it out for your purposes to see if you like it. If the M-Audio can supply 60 dB of clean gain I wouldn't worry too much about a different preamp at the moment. A Cloudlifter might help somewhat if there are issues with the preamp.
 
ecc83 said:
I don't think the OP was "mad" to enquire about the suitabilty of an SM7b?
Agreed, LDCapacitors are mainly the choice for studio "ballady/rock" vocals but the dynamic is often prefered for a more intimate vocal style.

If a noob had no mic and asked me what to get first (for you need more than one!) I would say a small D capacitor if mainly recording acoustic instruments, especially guitar, and a dynamic if mainly belting vocals and guitar cabs. The LDC is not the best choice in the small untreated rooms most of us have to contend with.

Dave.
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Hey - I was mostly joking, and I certainly wasn't suggesting he was mad. The madness I was referring to is buying new gear before putting the gear you already have to the test. Anyway - the AT 2020 is a decent inexpensive mic. It is more mid size than large diaphram, no matter what the marketing specs say. Though it wouldn't be my choice in mic, I have plenty of friends who use them with great results. The mic won't make anyones voice sound 'childlike' by any stretch.

Also - a matter of opinion, but I also disagree about the dynamic being preferred for a more intimate vocal style. In my experience it is the exact opposite. Have a screamer or shouter, go dynamic - more initimate condensor. As far as your point about room noise - in most cases, for the purposes we are using the equipment for as home recorders it just doesn't matter. My recordings are full of kids running around, toilets flushing, fans, dogs barking in untreated rooms. For the purposes of the song it doesn't matter one bit. No one has ever commented on noise in my recordings in the dozen or so songs I have posted here.

Anyway - in most cases I think it is a serious waste of time and money to go chasing gear as a solution to a basic problem. I'm not saying any of this to be confrontational, go against the grain or whatever. I think 90% of the stuff people talk about mattering, for home recording just doesn't matter at all. I have a good friend who does all his tunes with the crappiest equipment possible, and I don't come anywhere near the sound quality he gets. In fact I've never heard a single home recorded mix that comes close to what he does with about $300 worth of equipment and a computer. Point being - with equipment as good as it is now, its highly unlikely to be at fault for poor quality, or unsatisfactory recordings.
 
chuckduffy said:
Hey - I was mostly joking, and I certainly wasn't suggesting he was mad. The madness I was referring to is buying new gear before putting the gear you already have to the test. Anyway - the AT 2020 is a decent inexpensive mic. It is more mid size than large diaphram, no matter what the marketing specs say. Though it wouldn't be my choice in mic, I have plenty of friends who use them with great results. The mic won't make anyones voice sound 'childlike' by any stretch.

Also - a matter of opinion, but I also disagree about the dynamic being preferred for a more intimate vocal style. In my experience it is the exact opposite. Have a screamer or shouter, go dynamic - more initimate condensor. As far as your point about room noise - in most cases, for the purposes we are using the equipment for as home recorders it just doesn't matter. My recordings are full of kids running around, toilets flushing, fans, dogs barking in untreated rooms. For the purposes of the song it doesn't matter one bit. No one has ever commented on noise in my recordings in the dozen or so songs I have posted here.

Anyway - in most cases I think it is a serious waste of time and money to go chasing gear as a solution to a basic problem. I'm not saying any of this to be confrontational, go against the grain or whatever. I think 90% of the stuff people talk about mattering, for home recording just doesn't matter at all. I have a good friend who does all his tunes with the crappiest equipment possible, and I don't come anywhere near the sound quality he gets. In fact I've never heard a single home recorded mix that comes close to what he does with about $300 worth of equipment and a computer. Point being - with equipment as good as it is now, its highly unlikely to be at fault for poor quality, or unsatisfactory recordings.
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I was sort of joking with the "mad" as well!
Intimate? Well I could not think of a better word to describe what rappers tend to do with mics! What I meant was that you will not get the best out of any capacitor mic if you have it touching the gob!

There is no electronics reason for the pickup properties of capacitor mics, it is simply that they are the equivalent of a dynamic with 80dB of very clean gain and very, very few people have mic pres that good with that much gain. If I stand my Reslo RBs in a hum free place (an inherent fault) and crank the gain on my ZED 10 I pick up all sorts of house noises in the dead of night. Essentially no different from my STC-2 Sontronics with 20dB less gain set.

Dave.
 
ecc83 said:
I was sort of joking with the "mad" as well!
Intimate? Well I could not think of a better word to describe what rappers tend to do with mics! What I meant was that you will not get the best out of any capacitor mic if you have it touching the gob!
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Haha - I completely misunderstood the context of the word intimate - fair enough, got your point :-) This is one of the things I DO love about the SM7 - getting right up on it, including touching. With condensers I find I get a much better sound if I am not singing straight into it anyway. Above me singing up for head voice, chest level singing over or down for chest voice.
 
Thank you everyone for all you're replies as I have learned a lot already. The problem of course with my condensor mic was possibly my environment, plus combining a newb in the mix. I basically live in a longated studio, so I imagine sound bounces off all four corners, maybe the gain was up too high? Maybe other mistakes I'm making I don't know? I have gotten semi decent recordings that people havent seem to noticed any problems, but obviously these aren't people with a trained ear and understanding.

I'm inquiring about the sm7b because I want a mic that I can call somewhat a quality type mic, I didn't start out with one obviously my first being an M-audio producer mic, and then not much further from that to an At2020 with fast track, however I have received compliments on both, not sure because why though.

At this point in time I do have the money for it, but I'm here to ask questions before I buy rather than blind buying of course. So I'll be looking at the other options that have been provided such as the sm57. Once again thank you, anything else is greatly appreciated.
 
Dsm1gb said:
Thank you everyone for all you're replies as I have learned a lot already. The problem of course with my condensor mic was possibly my environment, plus combining a newb in the mix. I basically live in a longated studio, so I imagine sound bounces off all four corners, maybe the gain was up too high? Maybe other mistakes I'm making I don't know? I have gotten semi decent recordings that people havent seem to noticed any problems, but obviously these aren't people with a trained ear and understanding.

I'm inquiring about the sm7b because I want a mic that I can call somewhat a quality type mic, I didn't start out with one obviously my first being an M-audio producer mic, and then not much further from that to an At2020 with fast track, however I have received compliments on both, not sure because why though.

At this point in time I do have the money for it, but I'm here to ask questions before I buy rather than blind buying of course. So I'll be looking at the other options that have been provided such as the sm57. Once again thank you, anything else is greatly appreciated.
Click to expand...

Are you UK based? If so I could loan you an SM57 fo a couple of weeks? (N.B. if I HAD a 7b it would not go out of my sight!)
Dave.
 
No matter what mic you end up with, unless the mic is broken in some way, you will always end up sounding like you.
A change in mic is not going to make the difference between the recording sounding world class and awful. Mic choice is nuance. If you have a great performer in a great room through great gear then the mic choice may make that 2-3% difference

I personally had an SM7B for a couple of years and desperately tried to love it. However, with the exception of one particularly bright fender guitar amp, there was nothing I found I was reaching for it first on. That's purely subjective of course, many people swear by the SM7B. Just wanted to to give a different perspective.

I also used with a Fast Track Pro and found I was at pretty much the top of the pre amp gain most of the time on vocals to get a line level signal which is also where the preamp can start adding noise.
A lot of people like the GAP 73 pre amp with the SM7B, it's a nice pre and has a lot more gain (20-25db more) than many audio interfaces so you can get reasonable levels from the SM7B without pushing the pre right to the top of its range and get into the noisy performance area.

Just be prepared to be somewhat disappointed if you buy any new mic and expect your recordings to sound radically different from how they do now because they probably won't
 
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