Carve out space for each instrument ? (How if they them same range frequency)

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rockblin

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I have read a lot of thread, tips, tutorials on the internet about "carve out space for each instrument".
They suggest use EQ to do that - yah, I know that. Someone suggest some tips:
1. choose right sound for each instrument (base on your taste)
2. Determine each instrument's frequency (which range of frequency is the main and giving natural sound)
3. Use EQ to boost main range frequency and cutoff (a little bit or more - base on your taste) unnecessary range frequency.

Yah, with step 1 and 2, it's so easy for me. But, the step 3, I have some confuse (maybe don't understand).
Example: I have instrumental 1 have main range (with giving natural sound - for my taste) from 300Hz - 3kHz, and instrumental 2 have almost the same range (from 350Hz - 3.5 kHz).

Can anybody help me some techniques, tips to solve my problem :( I want to both of them show up with unconflict each others.
Someone told me that using Stereo Enhancer to solve this, but when I tried to use it, its sound is really bad :(

And another problem about panning, please take a look picture below (I tried to draw it but it's not beautiful like my desire)

Stereo.webp

How can I adjust to give instrument show up in desire range (in the picture above, range A B C D E F) (I know using pan but, Stereo Pan I do not have experience - I've just known panning left/right)

Thanks for reading and helping me :X

p/s: I'm using FL Studio 10 - Izotope Ozone 5 - Waves plugin
 
1. People take the idea of tone carving way too literally and end up hacking stuff to death. I tend to bring up an instrument until it balances with the mix at one frequency and then eq other parts of its range to fit.

2. Panning left/right is stereo panning. I don't see the confusion. Stereo panning sets where a sound is in one dimension, horizontal, so I don't know what that picture is trying to represent with two dimensions (unless it's surround panning which you can ignore unless you are mixing in surround into a surround monitoring system, and even then there is no vertical dimension).
 
You'll also likely get a much better response from this thread if you posted in a more applicable forum... This is much more of a tracking / mixing issue and really has little -- okay, really nothing at all to do with mastering.
Someone told me that using Stereo Enhancer to solve this, but when I tried to use it, its sound is really bad
Click to expand...
Yeah, that's a pretty nasty idea and I'm glad you found out why.

The whole

AEB
DFC

thing is just a representation of how the brain tends to hear things also -- Lower frequencies "feel" lower, higher frequencies "feel" higher (vertically speaking). This is true even with D'Appolito arrays. Your panning is going to be across the L/R field - But the brain fills in a "height" along with a width.
 
Massive Master said:
You'll also likely get a much better response from this thread if you posted in a more applicable forum... This is much more of a tracking / mixing issue and really has little -- okay, really nothing at all to do with mastering.
Click to expand...

Thread moved. :)
 
As warned above, I would caution you to start cutting and boosting EQ's all over the place. It should be done as sparingly and minimally as possible. The proper EQ for the instrument should be done before it ever gets recorded. If you have some sonic "wild hair" sticking out, you should take care of it - but don't starting chopping all the frequencies up or it will end up sounding worse.

While carving out space for an instrument can involve EQ, that's usually the last place I go. Stereo panning and volume have already been mentioned and those are givens. I also employ the following and you can try it out too:

1) Think of the "space" your recording is going to be in - do you want it to sound like it was recorded in a music hall, studio, cathedral, etc.
2) Now using the room/reverb device or plugin of your choice (I prefer Valhalla Room) to create three distinct distances in that space: close, medium, and far
3) Create a bus for each distance and dial in the settings for each one.
4) Now using your fx send you can determine which instruments will be applied to which distance.

So when you apply volume, panning, and distance together it helps separate the instruments. For example: You can have a guitar part that you drop a bit in the mix, pan it 35 to the left and fx send it to your far bus. Now you could have another guitar part with the same guitar / amp settings which would technically be in the same frequency, but you have it pushed a little louder in the mix, panned 50 to the right and fx sent to your close. By applying "room" strategically you can get a better sense of different instruments and their orientation in a 3D space.
 
That is all too complicated.

In reality, a well crafted mix is largely a result of proper microphone placement and a quality source. Knowing which mics bring out certain qualities in an instrument, placed in an appropriate position goes a lot further than "carving out" or whatever, which is a post-rationalization approach akin to "fixing it in the mix".

Professionals using a broadstrokes EQ approach is also not uncommon because they know how to get a good sound at the source. Here the rest of us sit theorizing how to fix the mistakes we already made way back at the beginning.

Cheers :)
 
Another thing to do is to listen first to make sure you have a problem. There are a lot of sounds that have a significant portion of their content in the 300hz - 3.5Khz range. That doesn't mean two sounds in that range automatically conflict with each other. Many times they can coexist just fine. I think frequency fighting is more rare than EQ articles in magazines might lead you to believe. My experience anyway.
 
Mo Facta said:
That is all too complicated.
Click to expand...

I agree about the EQ, as I stated above in regards to getting it right before it even gets recorded. But if you mean mic placement as far as capturing room dynamics, in a home recording situation you don't usually have access to nice studios where you'd actually want the room sound - so it has to be done after the fact.
 
Nope it doesn't start with mic placement. It starts with arrangement. Why do you have two instruments working in the same range if you want them to both be audible and distinct? Make them play different things and stay the hell out of each other's way!

OTOH - sometimes a little bit of masking is exactly what you want. Maybe you don't need the guitar and the piano to each stand out on their own and say "I'm a guitar!" and "I'm a piano!". Maybe they really just need to twine in together and say "We are a chordal rhythm section!"
 
Yep. Lots of overlap naturally. Need more space, less covering, sure trim it tighter. Need the density', ensemble' effect, leave it thicker.
I just bumped everybody on this one. Spot on stuff.
 
ashcat_lt said:
Nope it doesn't start with mic placement. It starts with arrangement. Why do you have two instruments working in the same range if you want them to both be audible and distinct? Make them play different things and stay the hell out of each other's way!

OTOH - sometimes a little bit of masking is exactly what you want. Maybe you don't need the guitar and the piano to each stand out on their own and say "I'm a guitar!" and "I'm a piano!". Maybe they really just need to twine in together and say "We are a chordal rhythm section!"
Click to expand...

I agree.

Using the same instruments, mics, positions, preamps....etc....you can have two TOTALLY different sounding mixes all due to arrangement.
You can change two notes in a bass line, and/or their rhytmic positions...and things open up or get cluster-%$#@ed.
 
Thanks for all suggestion and your experiences, I'll try.

p/s: Sorry for my mistake when I create this thread in Mastering :( I'm confused between mixing and mastering :(
 
Hey no worries. Most of us are still on that long road- of mastering our mixing.

:D
 
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