Advantages of Recording One Drum with Several Mics?

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I wasn't quite sure how to phrase the title, but basically what I'm getting at is this: do you get a better sound from isolating and recording one drum and mic (say, the snare) or allowing the overheads and kick mic etc to pick up the snare sound as well?

I've mainly doing the former - just micing up one drum at a time, and playing that drum part alone - because it's much quieter and I've had complaints with the full kit. It also allows me to iron out any timing problems etc pretty easily on Cubase.

However, when I returned to an earlier recording that had used the full kit and several mics I found the drums sounded a lot more authentic and, well, much better. But I wasn't sure if this was more to do with levels, or the presence of several microphones.

Do any drummers have an opinion on this? Does leakage of noise from one drum into the other nearby mics actually make for a more rounded drum kit sound, or should isolating each drum completely work just as well (or better)?

Basically I'm seeking assurance that my current method won't necessarily decrease the quality of my recordings! But do be honest... Thanks in advance.
 
It sounds like you're talking about recording the kick drum from start to finish, then the snare drum, then the..........etc

If that's the case, I'm not aware of anyone who does that.

There are a few reasons that it wont sound authentic.

One is that one drum affects the others. It's called sympathetic resonance.
Crack the snare and the toms will ring a little.
Stomp the kick and the snares will buzz a little.

A second reason is that the amalgamation of sounds from a kick, snare, tom etc all being played simultaneously, or at least very close together, results in unique reverberations in the room.
I'm pretty confident that the reverberations captured from recording drums separately will not combine to give the same result.


Another is that most people rely on the overheads for the body of sound, and use close mics for reinforcement.
You don't 'allow' the overheads to pick up the snare and kick (assuming you're playing the whole kit at once). They just will!

There are exceptions to the overhead/reinforcement idea, but I think this is a good way to look at it.
Any drummer will tell you that a kit is an instrument and should be treated as such.

To mic a record a snare separately from the rest of the kit is to record the E string parts separate from the rest of the guitar.

There is always "If it sounds right, it is right", so do what you want. ;)
 
I wouldn't go one by one recording everything seperately. That just seems far too time consuming. However, at the end of the day, if the results are what you want, then thats really the only thing that matters.

I would suggest trying a few different mic configurations. All of it would depend on the mics, and number of inputs you have at your disposal. I worked with a band a few months ago and the drummer said he talked to some guy at a music store who had a great technique of using just two mics to capture the whole kit. We tried it and it wasn't bad. We pointed a mic at the snare from a few feet away to the side, and another straight above the snare the same distance away. It had a classic sound that the drummer really liked. I wasn't the biggest fan of the sound because there was no kick (which I just ended up putting a mic on the kick and recorded it again) and the snare was wayyy too hot. The point is, it was a great place to start. Now knowing that, I can take it and modify it.

What I've found is that there is no right or wrong way to do anything. If it sounds good, it is good. The listener has no idea how long it took you, or what you did (unless they were there...). All they know is what the final result sounds like. Experiment and find what sounds better to you. I think the tone of everything will sound better and far more authentic if you record the kit as a kit, but your the engineer, do it how you want.
 
Thanks a lot for the replies guys. Steenamaroo, you confirmed my fears. I was aware of sympathetic resonance (well, not by that name) but had always assumed it to be a negative thing - something to minimize as much as possible. But clearly the opposite is true. Certainly, when recording drums along with other instruments sympathetic resonance enhances the sound rather than diminishing it.

By 'allowing' the overheads to pick up the sound I really just mean turning them on. At the moment I've been recording one drum, one mic - sometimes completely detached from the rest of the kit. I'm fully aware that this is an unusual way of doing things but it's the only way, really. I'm recording in a bedroom rather than any kind of studio and playing a full kit quickly gets complaints from one particular neighbour, so that's a no-go really. I can just about get away with recording each drum separately, as obviously that's quieter and less constant.

Of course, I could still use this method and switch all the other mics on, though that would effectively mean I would have 5 tracks for every single drum, which seems a bit excessive.

xbxrxixtx, thanks for the advice, but as explained above, it's not so much a choice as a necessity - I can't really play the whole kit at home, even though I prefer the sound when I do. It's a frustrating way of doing things, but I guess I just have to do the best I can with it.
 
I know it's not a perfect solution, but I'd look into a midi kit. One of those Roland jobs or similar.
There's software out there that isn't bad at all.

Obviously it's never gonna fool a drummer, ( it's one of the few things :p ) but it's pretty damn good.

Maybe worth a look?
 
boxbat said:
Do any drummers have an opinion on this?
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I do. Playing one drum at a time is asinine.

Does leakage of noise from one drum into the other nearby mics actually make for a more rounded drum kit sound,
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Yes

or should isolating each drum completely work just as well (or better)?
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Drums are a bunch of isolated pieces that work as a whole. Complete isolation sounds unnatural.

Do some research on overhead techniques and mic placement for each drum. Record the kit as a whole. Bask in the glory.
 
I'd be renting a practice studio for a few hours and hauling all my gear over there...

It won't be perfect by any means but I'm betting it'll be a whole lot more natural than what you're getting.

Or the MIDI kit as suggested, or learn to program MIDI drums.... at least as a real drummer you'll know how to get a more convincing sound than us non-drummers....
 
Thanks again people. I was mainly after the info regarding the importance of recording the whole kit in synthesis, and you provided that comprehensively. Whether or not I can do anything with said info in the near future remains to be seen given my limited funds, amateur setup and uncompromising neighbours, but I'll try and use what I've learnt in some way.
 
Kill the neighbors, rob a bank, buy some drums and mics, press record.
 
Ah, that's where I was going wrong - I skipped straight to steps three and four... Do wish the neighbours would take a holiday once in a while though. A couple of months would do the trick.
 
Just ask the neighbors nicely, and make them a bowl of green chili. If they are not receptive to that, then set their house on fire. lol

Then record. :)
 
Would this reasoning be the same when recording a whole band?

Having each band member play separately will create less of an atmosphere?
 
People seem to think it's the neigbors fault? They are in titled to not have a drum kit invading their lives, just as the home recordist does not want a barking dog or the neighbours harley Davidson invading the recording. I am a working Musician and a studio owner, I have a sound proof room that cost a lot of money to set up so I can record and rehearse in peace.

So then I get home and the community drumming group next door to my house decides to practice for the day, my thoughts on this group is that it is for people with no musical talent that want to perform on a stage. So here I am cold beer, watching football my quiet time, and boom boom boom ------ boom boom ba boom------boom boom boom.

Go to a rehearsal room and think of the neighbours, and they may make you a green chilli.

Alan.
 
witzendoz said:
People seem to think it's the neigbors fault? They are in titled to not have a drum kit invading their lives, just as the home recordist does not want a barking dog or the neighbours harley Davidson invading the recording. I am a working Musician and a studio owner, I have a sound proof room that cost a lot of money to set up so I can record and rehearse in peace.

So then I get home and the community drumming group next door to my house decides to practice for the day, my thoughts on this group is that it is for people with no musical talent that want to perform on a stage. So here I am cold beer, watching football my quiet time, and boom boom boom ------ boom boom ba boom------boom boom boom.

Go to a rehearsal room and think of the neighbours, and they may make you a green chilli.

Alan.
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I have an awful covers band that rehearse in a house near me. One night they did every Abba song ever. In a row. Several times each. Faaaaaaark!
 
Armistice said:
I have an awful covers band that rehearse in a house near me. One night they did every Abba song ever. In a row. Several times each. Faaaaaaark!
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Oh my....No chili for them!

Yeah, I agree. I would hate it if I were in a living situation, where I had to listen to other peoples crap. Thankfully, I don't have that issue now. Neither do my neighbors have to hear mine. Love the suburban style life, with an underground studio, 40 feet from any neighbor!

Go ahead, hate on me like I rap bad! lol!
 
Josh Homme, front man of Queen's of The Stone Age, always has his drummer (whoever it is at the time) record their drums alone first (well all the drums at once), and then do the cymbals separately on a different take. According to drummers who have tried this, it was difficult at first, but really gave a huge amount of control later in mixing. I think that would just f%#& my head, trying to do that, especially in perfect time!

A little off topic, so anyways...
 
I have had my fair share of apartments and homes and there has always been a neighbor that has heard the racket from my guitar amps, drums, or whatever. I know because they have told me, sometimes nicely and sometimes not. I feel your pain.

While your method is unorthodox and the comments about sympathetic vibrations, resonances and reflections are correct, I do not think your approach is that big of a detriment to your drum recordings depending upon how you are doing it. Sure, a drum kit would sound more "natural" if you play all the pieces at once and get the sympathetic vibrations, combining resonances and reflections, etc. But do any modern drum recordings really sound 100% "natural" and accurate? If accuracy and naturalism was the goal, every professional would record a kit with a single, properly-placed, flat-frequency mic in a 100% deadened room with no added plug-in/hardware effects, no EQ or compression, no close-miking or sound reinforcement of certain drums, no gating or limiting, no "tape" effect or head bumps, no proximity or specialty-mic effects (D-112s, subkicks, etc.), no room mics or room effects, no moon gels or pillows or drum tunnels, etc. Instead, your typical drum kit recording is full of this stuff and most of us do not complain and have even come to expect it from a "good" drum sound. Your approach may be different but it will not likely be the thing that kills your song if you are a non-professional recording songs in an apartment bedroom.

I am not sure if you are recording isolated, individual drums while they are still positioned on the kit, or if you are taking drums off and recording them in complete isolation from the kit. If it is the first one, you are probably picking up some sympathetic vibrations from the rest of the kit with each recording, but when you add all of those tracks together you may be ending up with a lot of extra vibration and background sounds that do not mix the same way or self-limit as they would if you were playing all the drums at once. For example, combining 5-6 tracks with dissimilar, background vibrations from an unused snare drum will not sound the same as if you were playing the snare drum at the same time as tracking the kit all at once. On the other hand, if you are recording individual drums in complete isolation from the rest of the kit, this might allow you the most control and let you "fix" some of the missing vibrations/resonances/reflections/noises with artificial effects after tracking all of your drums. Will it sound the same or "natural?" Probably not, but you can probably fudge it good enough for rock'n'roll. It is not too different from using good drum samples to build up a drum recording and then adjusting the samples and drum mix to taste with effects and processing so it sounds more "natural"... or at least more like what we expect from a drum sound nowadays.

In my opinion, the biggest detriments to your approach is that it probably takes forever and is far less fun than banging away. :)

[Edited for grammar error.]
 
Thanks very much toddyjoe, that makes me feel a little better about my methods. Lately I've been recording drums completely separately - detaching individual toms etc - which means there is virtually no resonance at all on any of the tracks. Like you say, though, this makes it easier to mess around with the timing etc, and if I add some reverb effects on cubase it seems to makes up for it pretty well to my untrained ears.

Less fun it certainly is, but unless I'm recording really complex, syncopated rhythms which can be a nightmare to play on individual drums (which isn't very often) it doesn't take much longer. In fact, I'm not the kind of drummer who often goes through a whole song hitting every beat on every drum precisely, so I'd probably need about as many takes on the full kit anyway.

Oh, and I have respect for the neighbours' position too, but I also believe they need to show a bit of tolerance on their end. I only play and record drums once every few months, and I get complaints within half an hour. A few hours of drumming a year in the middle of the day should be permissible, right?!
 
boxbat said:
A few hours of drumming a year in the middle of the day should be permissible, right?!
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I have a school across the street from my house, and they can hear me drumming inside the school. Ya know what? Tough shit for them. It's no worse than the yard guys cutting the grass while school is in session right outside of their windows. Kids are fat, weak, pampered pussies these days. They need the rock and roll lesson more than anyone.

Unless you're renting a place with common walls between neighbors, find out about your local noise ordinances. I live in white bread suburban bliss where cops are nazis and people of color are immediately arrested and waterboarded. I'm the worst guy around here. I like it that way. But I'm also allowed to make as much fucking noise as I want within the confines of my own front door. Look into it. Don't be a dick, but don't take any shit off your neighbors if you don't have to. You might be within the law and they might just have to STFU and deal with it. And start recording your drums like they're supposed to be recorded - as a kit.
 
Steenamaroo said:
It sounds like you're talking about recording the kick drum from start to finish, then the snare drum, then the..........etc

If that's the case, I'm not aware of anyone who does that.
Click to expand...
I'm pretty sure Stevie Wonder did that on some of those albums where he played everything ..... maybe 'Inner Visions' or one of the others from around that time.
 
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