where we go redux

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heatmiser

heatmiser

mr. green christmas
Hi,

This is a tune from a couple of years ago - originally recorded on 8 track cassette with a drum machine, etc. A friend of mine wrote the lyrics (more upbeat I guess than what I usually write) and I put it to music. It's a really simple song as usual.

I bought some cables and can now run all 8 cassette tracks into my 24 track digital porta. Don't worry, I have no plans to bombard you all with cassette remixes, but this one was totally redone. There's a few of the original tracks remaining, but most of it is new.

I just finished tracking and mixing down and am very unsure of this mix. The kick and bass kind of got away from me. The kick sounds like it's floating around somewhere and the bass doesn't cut through like it originally did. Also, I couldn;t get the volume very high for some reason on this one...

What do you all think of the tune/mix? Normally I only post stuff that I've mixed more thoroughly, but I was anxious for some feedback....thanks!

Soundcloud link:

where we go by kingseesar on SoundCloud

Soundcloud link to new 8.23 mix:

where we go (8.23.12 mix) by kingseesar on SoundCloud
 
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I thought Id heard most of your stuff...this is beyond my membership here...its fits in great with your recent stuff and sounds fresh to me...I think the mix sounds great...I love the distorted start and the contrast to its upbeat feel...the distorted vocals in the background are a great touch but for some reason I didnt like them when they came in again around 1.26..kinda like less is more...they sounded great coming in at the end though

the main vocals got a little buried when the backing came in

loved the breakdown and the wonky distorted solo


gave the whole tune a light and dark balance
 
You've managed to pull together some really interesting sounds into a very cohesive mix. I really like it. I like the vocals the way they are a bit distant and almost telephone like. Maybe they could come up a bit in parts where things get a bit busy, but I think they sound great. Love the distorted percussion. The guitars sound great. Drums really keep things moving, and kind of make it a toe tapper. Very nice mix.
 
Thanks KC. This is some of that "filler" I was on about in that other thread.

I dunno. Listening again I fear all the upper mids (especially on that lead vocal track) are kind of grating.

There aren't any (intentionally) distorted vocals. I think the recurring distorted thing is the same drum machine track from the intro. I had it swell up during each verse, but maybe I should only have it appear at a few key moments?

There are two "anti-solos" on this. The first, a detuned toy guitar. The second, a nails-on-chalkboard tone I like to call, the Tea Kettle :p.

Thanks again. Looking forward to hearing you on the radio :)!
 
guitar zero said:
You've managed to pull together some really interesting sounds into a very cohesive mix. I really like it. I like the vocals the way they are a bit distant and almost telephone like. Maybe they could come up a bit in parts where things get a bit busy, but I think they sound great. Love the distorted percussion. The guitars sound great. Drums really keep things moving, and kind of make it a toe tapper. Very nice mix.
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Hey, that's awesome GZ - thanks.

The lead vocal track is from the original cassette recording. Compared with all of the newer, digital tracks, it does sound kind of telephoney, which I generally like. Still not sure here though. That's 2 for 2 on buried vox during busier parts. I appreciate the input and encouragement!
 
Ok, I wasn't going to listen to anything until I got back, but I cracked and after lots of buffering and stuttering, got through the song. I've only heard once and through crappy earphones, but initial impressions are that it sounds great to me heat - anti-solos are the best kind! I like how you have such a solid base to let the more atonal elements like the whistling tea kettle break free without it sounding like a chaotic mess. Beck does this well on Odelay as well I think.

I listened without reading comments and came to the same conclusion as others independently - the vocal loses it's impact in the chorus. I dont know that it's too low, it's more that the chorus lines are the big payoff and they somehow duck out a little. I think maybe bringing some other parts down than the vocal up. if that makes any sense at all? Will listen properly when i'm home.
 
robgreen said:
Ok, I wasn't going to listen to anything until I got back, but I cracked and after lots of buffering and stuttering, got through the song. I've only heard once and through crappy earphones, but initial impressions are that it sounds great to me heat - anti-solos are the best kind! I like how you have such a solid base to let the more atonal elements like the whistling tea kettle break free without it sounding like a chaotic mess. Beck does this well on Odelay as well I think.

I listened without reading comments and came to the same conclusion as others independently - the vocal loses it's impact in the chorus. I dont know that it's too low, it's more that the chorus lines are the big payoff and they somehow duck out a little. I think maybe bringing some other parts down than the vocal up. if that makes any sense at all? Will listen properly when i'm home.
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Rob!!

You must be on the honeymoon tour of the SW, right? Hope the two of you are having a blast!

Yes, your comments on the vox make sense. Not sure how I will address that yet, but I will.

When you get back, listen to the tune I did just before this one though, ok? It's a lot of fun and I think you might enjoy it...stay cool out there in the desert!
 
First of all, I really enjoyed the song. :thumbs up: Simple but very enjoyable. I like the arrangement of sounds you have going throughout. The vocal aahs are great. excellent tone and control.
Vocals definitely need to come up, a lot i feel. The main drums seem a little top heavy. As you mentioned, the kick gets kinda lost when everything else is happening. the distorted kit sounded pretty good, but when the live kit came in, it made me tilt my head to the side a bit.
The "Nowhere to run but everywhere" part needs the drums to come up. the extra vocals seems to push the kit away. The bass seems a little thin to my ear. The tone is great, it just seems to be lacking in the lows, although that might be what you were going for.
The snare seems to be largely on the sides, so you could be having some phase issues if you had a spot mic.
I think the guitars could have a little more low end and some more pick and air. I think I'm hearing an acoustic tucked in there?
I love the violin-esque melodic accent/build.
Great song, great song. I listened 4 times through and I could easily listen a couple hundred times more.
 
illumination said:
First of all, I really enjoyed the song. :thumbs up: Simple but very enjoyable. I like the arrangement of sounds you have going throughout. The vocal aahs are great. excellent tone and control.
Vocals definitely need to come up, a lot i feel. The main drums seem a little top heavy. As you mentioned, the kick gets kinda lost when everything else is happening. the distorted kit sounded pretty good, but when the live kit came in, it made me tilt my head to the side a bit.
The "Nowhere to run but everywhere" part needs the drums to come up. the extra vocals seems to push the kit away. The bass seems a little thin to my ear. The tone is great, it just seems to be lacking in the lows, although that might be what you were going for.
The snare seems to be largely on the sides, so you could be having some phase issues if you had a spot mic.
I think the guitars could have a little more low end and some more pick and air. I think I'm hearing an acoustic tucked in there?
I love the violin-esque melodic accent/build.
Great song, great song. I listened 4 times through and I could easily listen a couple hundred times more.
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Wow. You are freakin' thorough man!

I really appreciate all of the input though and I'm glad you enjoy the song. I think I'm ok with the electric guitar tones. I tend to go for older, mid rangey kind of tones, but I do get feedback that they lack bite sometimes, which may tie into the air/pick comment too. I didn't carve much low end from them, but I did a little...

There are several acoustic guitars in there (a busy mix!) and I actually thought they were too loud. I also think they're a little too shimmery sounding maybe?

I think I should play around with the kick/bass region more. I don't want the bass to be lite at all. I also thought the lead vocal was way too loud! Most seem to feel the opposite.

The drums are what really confuse me. I am not experienced or knowledgeable about playing, tracking or mixing drums. I am using a Glyn Johns set up (but with two mics on the kick due to the lack of one actual kick mic). The OHs are cheap chinese SDCs. I have each one 40" from the center of the snare, which I thought would eliminate phase issues? The OH panning is challenging. With one mic over the snare and the other over by the floor tom, I never know how to pan them. I often just spread them equally wide (as is the case here), but that doesn't mirror how they're set up. Maybe I should pan the OH mic that is over the snare closer to the center? I thought that would sound lopsided though...

I knew I had some work to do, and to the extent that I am able to try your suggestions, I will. Thank you.
 
New mix

Sorry for the ole' bumperoonie, but I just spent many hours fiddling with this and wanted to share this new mix (link here and at the top):

where we go (8.23.12 mix) by kingseesar on SoundCloud

I actually did some of everything that's been suggested so far. I don't know that I did it well, but I did it...

Biggest changes are the drums which are now panned less wildly, and the absence of the distorted drum machine throughout most of the middle of the tune. Almost everything else was altered in some way too. I forgot I had motorized faders, so it was fun to put them to use this evening anyway. I think this version sounds a little less spacey, and perhaps more plain but a little more solid somehow.

Any thoughts? I've loved what you've come up with so far.
 
This is one of my favorite tunes of yours. I wasn't sure how I felt about you redoing it until I listened. It's a lot more spacious, that's for sure! I love the distorted drums behind the clean drums. If I remember correctly, that was present in the original mix but it sounds much nicer and prominent here. There are two mix related things that jump out at me immediately, though. Your vocals seem a bit harsh in the mid-range. Not to an unsustainable degree but it is a bit irritating to my ears. The same thing goes for the guitar solo. I can't pinpoint exactly which frequency range has me cringe but something about it sounds grading. I think maybe it could be level-wise. It sat perfectly in the original mix. Other than that, it's fine! Performance wise, it seems that on the words 'confusion' and 'are' (from 'you are what you are') that you're a bit pitch-y. Now, that's not a huge problem at all. That's just being picky but I thought I might point it out in case you're like-mindedly picky.

I've always loved this song and though I think I still prefer the original version, this is great in its own right!
 
propman said:
This is one of my favorite tunes of yours. I wasn't sure how I felt about you redoing it until I listened. It's a lot more spacious, that's for sure! I love the distorted drums behind the clean drums. If I remember correctly, that was present in the original mix but it sounds much nicer and prominent here. There are two mix related things that jump out at me immediately, though. Your vocals seem a bit harsh in the mid-range. Not to an unsustainable degree but it is a bit irritating to my ears. The same thing goes for the guitar solo. I can't pinpoint exactly which frequency range has me cringe but something about it sounds grading. I think maybe it could be level-wise. It sat perfectly in the original mix. Other than that, it's fine! Performance wise, it seems that on the words 'confusion' and 'are' (from 'you are what you are') that you're a bit pitch-y. Now, that's not a huge problem at all. That's just being picky but I thought I might point it out in case you're like-mindedly picky.

I've always loved this song and though I think I still prefer the original version, this is great in its own right!
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Thanks for checking it out propman!

Yeah, I'm generally not really into revisiting or reworking old material, but the drum machine on those old cassette recordings really held them back, for me anyway. Although not much of a drummer, even the basic acoustic drums sound worlds better to me than the drum machine. Several of the original tracks (the lead vocals and distorto-drums for example) remain.

I agree on the upper mids being harsh on the lead vocal. I wasn't able to address that effectively. The "lead" guitar parts are identical to the orignal and in some strange way, were intended to be a little annoying.

I don't think you're being nit-picky on pitch. It could be rough throughout and I'm not sure I'd pick up on that. I've made some progress, but that is still an area where I struggle. I fiddled around with singing this one again, but left the original vocal from 2010. I did add all of the "Aaaaahhhhs" in the chorus though (which I'd wanted to do back in 2010, but didn't have the tracks/mics/etc. to do it.

Thanks again! Hope to hear something of yours soon.
 
Mate, I liked everything about this. Really, really enjoyable listen. I think I liked the bass best. Nothing fancy - nice tone, well played and perfectly mixed. Good job!
 
jonny deep said:
Mate, I liked everything about this. Really, really enjoyable listen. I think I liked the bass best. Nothing fancy - nice tone, well played and perfectly mixed. Good job!
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Thanks Mr. deep! That is very nice of you to say. I still don't know if the bass comes through enough on this, but I'm going to leave it as is for now. Thanks for the encouragment.
 
your music has a really unique sound to it. i love the vocals and the distorted drums on this one. the part right after the breakdown made me picture a robot made out of power tools, just going about his daily life...
 
heatmiser said:
Rob!!

You must be on the honeymoon tour of the SW, right? Hope the two of you are having a blast!

Yes, your comments on the vox make sense. Not sure how I will address that yet, but I will.

When you get back, listen to the tune I did just before this one though, ok? It's a lot of fun and I think you might enjoy it...stay cool out there in the desert!
Click to expand...

Thanks man - we got back over the weekend, so sadly the trip is now over. As if to underline this, it has rained pretty much non-stop since touching back down in Manchester. Had a freakin fantastic time though - Yosemite, the Mojave Desert around Joshua Tree and hairpin bends of Big Sur were massive highlights. Death Valley was crazy hot and Vegas was just plain crazy.

Looking forward to having a listen to your two new tunes properly when I'm at home with decent speakers - The Faster Where We Go? :D
 
Hey Petemeiser - First time hearing this tune for me. I listened to both versions several times and could only hear the most subtle difference, and even then I wasn't quite sure if I was really hearing them, or just wanted to believe my ears could hear all that stuff. I must have no ear for sonics...
What effect is that on the robodrums between the verses? Is that a slap-back delay or modulation effect? It's pretty cool. I like the tune...I guess I'd agree that maybe the bass doesn't thump quite as much as some of your other stuff, but I'm really just digging for something to say here. The synth solo after the breakdown is really cool. I'd be curious to know how much of this is from the original recording and how much you retracked. I've been retracking older stuff of mine as well, and I've found that once I retrack a few things, suddenly the rest of the song sounds sad and sulky compared with the updated tracks and I end up retracking waaaay more than I intended to.


heatmiser said:
The OH panning is challenging. With one mic over the snare and the other over by the floor tom, I never know how to pan them. I often just spread them equally wide (as is the case here), but that doesn't mirror how they're set up. Maybe I should pan the OH mic that is over the snare closer to the center? I thought that would sound lopsided though...
Click to expand...

Are you close mic'ing your snare? That might be what you're looking for. Keep the OHs wide and send the snare straight up the middle....
 
robgreen said:
As if to underline this, it has rained pretty much non-stop since touching back down in Manchester.
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Is it ever not raining in Manchester? Even on your Soundcloud page you're under an umbrella...:)
 
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