Unopened Sticky and Non-sticky tapes wanted for research at the Library of Congress

[Lt. Bob]

I agree. . . I didn't understand the OP's cryptic reference information, and I didn't really care enough to try and figure it out, or search his background just so I can give tape away "in kind". . .

(If Miro has a fault, it is patience . . . -- He may have others, IDK--. . . But he usually displays a super-human, enviable reserve in the face of much abuse and name-calling, which, btw, is really very childish.)

I'll grant you the name calling is uncalled for .... but miro, IMO , is equally guilty of not letting this go.
There have been numerous times it could have ended but he also keeps coming back with these long winded posts that also continue the drama for no good reason.

Miro ....... you are incapable of stopping until you feel you have bludgeoned the other side into accepting that you and only you have validity in your viewpoint.
You've made your point ...... freakin' quit HAVING to get the last word in. You're not saying anything new .... you're repeating yourself ...... but OMG you just have to have the last word.
Whether talking about amps or politics or this you will NOT stop unless you get the last word in.

That's the only thing I think you get wrong as a mod ...... freakin' make your point and quit ..... you have no standing for critisizing others for stirring the pot when your unwillingness to not get the last word in stirs it just as much.

My opinion for what little it's worth to ya'.

 

[Beck]

The burden is on the OP. And a mod has other options too that we don’t have like deleting a thread or banning habitually disruptive members. There are a lot of options depending on the circumstances. I think Miro does a good job and some of these issues are quite problematic, going back years with conflict as long as some members have been here. That's the most puzzling thing to me. There are many here who are genuinely passionate about their views, but the abusive trolling sort are something altogether different. How they've been allowed to use this place as a personal punching bag for so long is beyond me.

Some conflict is normal family squabble to be expected, but others are obviously here for sport with little to no interest in recording.

And by the way, to everyone… it’s a perfectly valid thing to point out when someone is trolling or possibly scamming and to examine a post that involves a request with some caution. That’s something any good moderator or any good member does. The web has become even more of a minefield over the time I’ve been involved in Internet social networks. And there are a lot of things that go on in web forums… one of them is housekeeping. Some people approach that by washing their hands of any controversy and sticking there head in the sand.

Allowing members to be misled is a sin of omission in my book. Sitting on ones hands on the sidelines while a forum becomes overrun with trolls has never been a noble thing in my eyes. For those that think they can somehow remain squeaky clean by ignoring these things, they are only fooling themselves. It shows a lack of any personal investment for the forum. No passion… no heart. It seems you can just take it or leave it and when things finally get out of control for lack of involvement you can abandon it and go somewhere else. How convenient it is for some.

Those of us who’ve been recording for decades and hand out free consulting pay the freight for this place. We could make you buy the book if you want to know what it took a lifetime for us to know. We come here in the first place to give something back and not only do we not get a penny for the “Privilege” we have to put up with sick minds who’s first purpose above all seems to be to make waves and vent their life’s frustrations. They get a kick out of it. We don’t have to come here and it would be the forum’s loss. Heaven knows why some of us bother to take a place under our wings and try to make it more than it seems to want to be sometimes.

We’d all really rather be talking about other things, but as long as there are a handful who insist on trying to dominate the topics here, although they know nothing about the topics, we will have conflict. I’ve often said, music recording isn’t rocket science; rocket science is comparatively easy. Why don’t you go bother those people? It’s much easier to pose as a rocket scientist than a good recording engineer. I’ve always thought the title of this entire site, “Home Recording” is a bit inviting to trolls. The fact is, especially in the analog forum, if you come here and try to play engineer you’re going to get called on it. There are too many people here with extensive backgrounds in both commercial and personal recording. Maybe someday the wannabe experts will get that through their heads and give it up. Of all the forums and subforums that I know of anywhere on the web this is one place you don’t want to try to bluff your way through. Yet people do. They should be blushing bright red… something pretty even like the Northern Lights if they knew how exposed they really were. I see the frustration in a handful here when the topics are just plain over there heads. They’re the ones constantly instigating and antagonizing. I know I don’t even have to name names. Those types stand right up and call attention to themselves every time.

It’s a double-edged sword. On one hand I like to see a forum free from unnecessary interference and allow people to express themselves honestly. But on the other hand I’ve never seen a site where people get away with so much blatant obstruction and abusive behavior…seemingly wanting nothing more than to destroy this forum, and still they’re not banned or at least temporarily put on probation.

HR is most like the wild west of any web forum I’m familiar with. Maybe that alone is the problem. As long as certain abusive personalities are allowed to run free here rip shod over everyone we will have these problems. I think there could be more discernment here on the part of HR.com about what is genuine discussion and diverse points of view, and what is destructive and abusive behavior that threatens the very existence of the forum. There’s always been a number of individuals that don’t like the success of the analog forum in particular. As I said, you can’t come here and play expert and get away with so easily as elsewhere. That’s enough to keep some people coming back and never getting enough of buzzing this forum out of frustration.

Again if anyone has any better ideas than to call troll when someone is trolling please let us know. The trolls always have the advantage. They can come in every single topic to disrupt or bring down to their level or whatever… until they are banned. We’re all shocked. We all have the jaw dropping moments here over the conduct. What to do about it?

 

[miroslav]

I'll grant you the name calling is uncalled for .... but miro, IMO , is equally guilty of not letting this go.
There have been numerous times it could have ended but he also keeps coming back with these long winded posts that also continue the drama for no good reason.

While I certainly will not disagree that I don't quit easy and will debate a point as long as the other side is willing...but AFA as who is guilty of not letting the pissing match here go and of attempts to stir and re-stir it...that, you can't pin on me here.
It's got nothing to do with "last word" or forcing my view on anyone...I mean, who around here ever really gives up their views anyway, you included... ...so I'm not looking to force anything on anyone...I just speak my view like everyone else speaks theirs.
That said....what my responses here were about is what is true/fair VS what someone is imagining or inventing just for the sake of attacking and demeaning on a personal level.
I don't do that.
I've never initiated those types of attacks on anyone at HR...I'm more about defense.

There were several points in this thread where I thought things mellowed out, and the thread would die or go back on-topic...yet Tim kept coming back to stoke and re-stoke the fire, and bdenton brought in more wood for him.

I am curious about one thing though....
I think even you would agree it takes at least 2 if not more people to keep any kind of lengthy debate/discussion going, since one person can't have it on his own....
....yet you always make a point of just telling me that I'm the one keeping it going...why is that?
Even when others have been very abusive, with nasty digs and name-calling...I've never seen you criticize them openly as you do me.
I know a couple of times you and I have had some involved debates, so maybe that's the reason for the slant...but I try not to cling to past history. I mean, we can argue about something today, and I am very willing to move on tomorrow if the other person is willing...and not having to always carry "history" around...especially from things that occur in the Cave.
So I hope there's nothing still lingering with you....but if there is, PM me, I'm sure we can sort it out if there is something...and I'm not looking to have a rift with you about anything here either.

 

[Lt. Bob]

lol ...... I knew he couldn't not post.

I'm not even reading it ...... it's gonna be a repetition of all the other posts.

And so now Tim will respond ...... maybe someone else and then Miro again.

It's as predictable as Ted Nugent sucking. You KNOW that's how it's gonna go.



guys ...... ya'll have said everything there is to say .............. just stop it and move on.

 

[Tim Gillett]

It seems I'm expected to come back again and post so I thought I'd better not disappoint.


Cheers Tim

 

[Lt. Bob]

It seems I'm expected to come back again and post so I thought I'd better not disappoint.


Cheers Tim

good ....... good ..... let it out ..... let it out ...... now inhale ........... breathe .................



Everyone ok?

 

[breitung1]

It seems that my not including contact information is causing issues. I have done this to avoid spam, etc., as I'm just as skeptical about putting email, etc. on the web as most. That said, one member of the HomeRecording forum sent me a personal message to which i responded including my loc dot gov address.

He is willing to send one or two tapes to test, and has some others that he does not want to part with. I've offered to test the ones he'd like to keep and return them.

The test includes the following: 1) Play the tape on a Studer looking for shedding, flaking, squealing, etc. 2) Use an infrared spectrometer with an ATR crystal making 20 measurements in 2 separate 1 centimeter areas within the first 2 meters.
For those would be willing to let me test their unopened tape but do not want to donate them, I would be more than happy to return it to you. The spots from the ATR crystal are about 1 millimeter in diameter and have, to date, been removable with isopropyl alcohol. I am planning to test the fidelity change that might be caused by this test this summer (using many more spots over much tape length).
Another option would be to allow me to 1) play the tape and 2) remove the first 1-2 meters to keep.

Thank you for your interest and assistance -

 

[Lt. Bob]

you are a very mellow man.

 

[miroslav]

It seems that my not including contact information is causing issues. I have done this to avoid spam, etc., as I'm just as skeptical about putting email, etc. on the web as most.

Your concern about spam is 100% understandable...and there was initially the same concern for spam on this end, and what set off this lengthy debate....but that has no bearing on the interest and desire of the tape users here wanting to assist in any official study. We've all dealt with sticky, shedding tapes...and it is a problem for all of us still using tapes and having to rely on NOS stock that is floating around on eBay and other limited sources.

One question I asked early on and I don't think it was answered is what tape size are you looking for? There was an assumption by some that any/all tapes were of interest to you...but I get the feeling you are mainly looking for 1/4" tape.
Can you clarify that?
There is a variety of tape use by the members here....from cassette tapes, to 1/4", 1/2", 1" and also 2" tape.

Another option would be to allow me to 1) play the tape and 2) remove the first 1-2 meters to keep.

Would you consider accepting just a few meters of tape from unused/unopened spools if each of the submissions were properly documented with tape brand/type and with all the numerical/serial info on the spines of the boxes from where each section came from?
If you can provide the exact details of what info you wanted and how to document and mark and prep the submissions, that would help...or do you really need the entire reel of tape even if you only want to keep a few meters?
It might simplify the request and make the mailing a one-way process. A few meters off a spool would not bother most folks and you might get more submissions. Anyway...it's just a thought.

When you confirm what size tape you are are interested in...I'll let you know what I can send you.
I have NOS, unused/unopened BASF/EMTEC 911 and 468 from a few different vintages/batches...in 1/4" and 1/2", and some Ampex/Quantegy 456 1/2" tape, and maybe a couple of others, unused/unopened...
...but I would rather not have to pack up a case full of tape reels, though cutting off a few meters would not be a problem.

 

[breitung1]

So far, for simplicity, I've been working with and would prefer 1/4" tape.

Regarding accepting a short length of tape from a reel. I would not turn it down, though it puts a significant burden on the person donating to document with photographs (or video of the tape being opened?) and labels, and even then, there's really no way for me to know that it's the tape it's supposed to be. The amount of work required to evaluate the tapes in the lab is significant, so I prefer to only work on materials that I can guarantee are what I believe they are.

If you are willing to box and ship using FedEx, I believe the Library may be able to pay for shipping, and I would be more than happy to return them to you - also at no cost to you.

To the group - thank you for understanding that I'd prefer to not publicize my email address to avoid spam. Again, I will provide that to you if you send me a personal message.

Thank you again for your interest and help - -

 

[breitung1]

Thanks much for the gearslutz link.

 

[miroslav]

You can also try the Tapeheads website: TapeHeads.Net
But be prepared for them to discuss the use of Nu Finish car polish as some sort of tape reconditioner/preserver with you.

And the there is also the Tape Project forums: Tape Project Forum - Index
They are mostly focused on audiophile tape playback.

 

[sweetbeats]

Anybody suggest the tapeop forum? That would be another one with some potential.

 

[miroslav]

I don't hang much on the Tape Op forum...it's kinda dead...but that is my favorite audio magazine.
Over the years they've gotten away from the literal "tape op" mentality, and now most of the guys are using digital like so many others...but still a few tape hounds left.

 

[breitung1]

Great suggestions - i've posted on all but the Tape Op forum, and I'll definitely post there as well. thank you!