Hello everybody + a question

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taque

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Hello Everybody,

I'm new on this Forum. I'm from Spain, and I love playing and recording my own music.

I'm trying to buy one of those small and portables (and cheap?) multitrack recorders. I'm getting confused because I found very different prices in internet Shops and usual Shops. Don't like to do this with computers.

I play keyboards and I've got a set with:

- Juno Roland,
- Microkorg
- Roland GW-8 workstation.

I would like if you could advice me on what "mini-studio" is better for me. I have been having a look to 2 machines so far:

- Boss BR-8 (375€)
- Zoom R-8/R-16 (300€)

Any more options?

Please give me some help and sorry my English.

Kindest Regards,

Enrique
 
I just got the R16 and it's fantastic as a stand alone recorder. In Germany they cost around €315.
I don't record directly to the computer either. I use the R16 as a standalone and then transfer the files to my station when I'm finished recording.

Good luck!
SG
 
taque said:
Hello Everybody,

I'm new on this Forum. I'm from Spain, and I love playing and recording my own music.

I'm trying to buy one of those small and portables (and cheap?) multitrack recorders. I'm getting confused because I found very different prices in internet Shops and usual Shops. Don't like to do this with computers.

I play keyboards and I've got a set with:

- Juno Roland,
- Microkorg
- Roland GW-8 workstation.

I would like if you could advice me on what "mini-studio" is better for me. I have been having a look to 2 machines so far:

- Boss BR-8 (375€)
- Zoom R-8/R-16 (300€)

Any more options?

Please give me some help and sorry my English.

Kindest Regards,

Enrique
Click to expand...

sgia said:
I just got the R16 and it's fantastic as a stand alone recorder. In Germany they cost around €315.
I don't record directly to the computer either. I use the R16 as a standalone and then transfer the files to my station when I'm finished recording.

Good luck!
SG
Click to expand...



Hello Gentlemen and welcome to the zoo.

Taque - I would go with SG and say that the zoom R16 would be your best bet. ;)
 
I was thinking of purchasing the Zoom R24, but decided against it.

From what I read, the Zoom R24 and R16 both have clock issues. They work fine if you use them as a computer interface, since they use the computer's clock in that situation. But as a stand-alone recorder, there have been reports of serious drift.

This issue showed up when someone tried to use an R24 as a field recorder for a video shoot, then couldn't sync the sound and video afterward. Within just a few minutes, there was enough drift that the sound was unusable.

Perhaps this doesn't apply to your situation, or you're not concerned. Just thought you might want to know before you purchase.

John
 
jwerner said:
I was thinking of purchasing the Zoom R24, but decided against it.

From what I read, the Zoom R24 and R16 both have clock issues. They work fine if you use them as a computer interface, since they use the computer's clock in that situation. But as a stand-alone recorder, there have been reports of serious drift.

This issue showed up when someone tried to use an R24 as a field recorder for a video shoot, then couldn't sync the sound and video afterward. Within just a few minutes, there was enough drift that the sound was unusable.

Perhaps this doesn't apply to your situation, or you're not concerned. Just thought you might want to know before you purchase.

John
Click to expand...

I have recorded 6 tracks simultaneously for over 3 hours (live show) as well as many multi track sessions (one track after another) and cannot say I ever saw anything like that. Perhaps you can post where you found this information?
Thanks
 
The person who discovered the issue has posted on several forums, but the first that I found was his review on the B&H PhotoVideo website, at www dot bhphotovideo dot com. I'd post a URL, but I don't have permission yet.

Search for the Zoom R24 on that site and read the customer review titled, "Bad Clock Generator?" It contains the details of how he discovered the issue, and his correspondence with Zoom's customer service. In the reply from customer service, they admit that they use a crystal oscillator on one chip as a clock generator, and that it is not accurate enough. The Z24 and the Z16 both use the same chip.

However, you might not notice any issues unless you compare two simultaneous recordings, one with the Zoom and one with something more accurate. Or if you record with the Zoom and then import the tracks into a computer for playback, you might notice. (Probably not in the latter case.)

Basically, if what the reviewer is reporting is true, the sample rate of the Zoom might be off slightly, which could present an issue in certain situations. Of course, this could be some guy trying to crap on the Zoom R24. But it caused me to rethink my purchase.
 
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Thanks for your comments. Is it a good machine for a newbie?
 
There are a few in that price range that might be interesting.

You should ask yourself a few questions that will help narrow your search:

1. how many channels do you want to record at the same time?
2. do you need phantom power (condensor mics), if yes, how many?
3. are onboard microphones of any use or interest?
4. what do you want to do with the recordings once you have them? (is 16 bt OK)
5. will you be using a computer to edit and mix or should the device have a mixdown / mastering option?
6. how much do you want to spend?

What was very important for me was to consider what steps do I need to take to get what I want in the end. For example, if I want to record a few tracks and my goal is to have the files an WAV files to import into my software - does the device easily support this? Do I need to perform any operating system specific conversions or additional export steps on the device to get where I want to be, and are these steps acceptable for me?

Way back when I used a Tascam (model 788 I think), this was before USB connections were on any of these things and you had to export and burn to a SCSI attached CD ROM burner. We made many very, very good recordings on this but the steps to get something out of the device we excruciating by today's standards.

Anyways, good luck in your search, I hope this has helped.

SG

PS: as jwerner stated, make sure you comb the internet for reviews on your shortlisted devices and see if other people are happy with it.
 
jwerner said:
The person who discovered the issue has posted on several forums, but the first that I found was his review on the B&H PhotoVideo website, at www dot bhphotovideo dot com. I'd post a URL, but I don't have permission yet.

Search for the Zoom R24 on that site and read the customer review titled, "Bad Clock Generator?" It contains the details of how he discovered the issue, and his correspondence with Zoom's customer service. In the reply from customer service, they admit that they use a crystal oscillator on one chip as a clock generator, and that it is not accurate enough. The Z24 and the Z16 both use the same chip.

However, you might not notice any issues unless you compare two simultaneous recordings, one with the Zoom and one with something more accurate. Or if you record with the Zoom and then import the tracks into a computer for playback, you might notice. (Probably not in the latter case.)

Basically, if what the reviewer is reporting is true, the sample rate of the Zoom might be off slightly, which could present an issue in certain situations. Of course, this could be some guy trying to crap on the Zoom R24. But it caused me to rethink my purchase.
Click to expand...


You don't know if the guy was doing something wrong on his end,one bad report is an anomaly not a trend.
 
acidrock said:
You don't know if the guy was doing something wrong on his end,one bad report is an anomaly not a trend.
Click to expand...

I agree. If this was truly a problem it would be grave indeed (a multitracker that can't keep tracks in sync!) and there would be more shouts about it, given its popularity and price.
 
I would say that the zoom was not the problem with the drift. The only time that I have seen problems is if there is only one camera shot for 2 or 3 hours ... never once seen it with multiple camera shots.
 
I've seen these posts also and have avoided buying, but i have to wonder, how quickly he says his audio drifts out of sync matches with the same problem i've had in the past when trying to sync 44.1khz recording with video (or audio recorded with the video) since video needs 48k, i never saw a mention that he was specifically using 48k.. Still interested in the r24 (r16 wouldn't work in my case since it only records at 44.1, which wouldn;t sync with video).
 
I don't want to argue about this, because I don't have any direct experience with the hardware. But three quick points:

1. He is not the only person to have reported this.

2. It isn't a 44.1kHz versus 48kHz issue. He specifically states that he is recording at 48kHz.

sgia said:
I agree. If this was truly a problem it would be grave indeed (a multitracker that can't keep tracks in sync!) and there would be more shouts about it, given its popularity and price.
Click to expand...

3. Tracks recorded on the Zoom R24 would still be in sync when played back through it. Why? The same clock, faulty or not, is controlling both the playback and recording. So the recorded sample slice would still align with the sample slice that was being played back, and would be played back correctly.

A clock issue would be much more subtle, and would result in difficult to notice things. If it is consistently faulty (i.e. each tick is always the same length, just not the correct length), then there will be no apparent issue when playing a recording back on the Zoom R24.

But if you move the Zoom R24 recording to a more accurate machine for playback, then you might notice things. Such as microscopic changes in intonation and timing, that may or may not be apparent to your ear.
That's what happened when the guy tried to sync the Zoom R24 recording to a video. He moved the recording to his computer, and it was played back using the timing of the computer's clock. Then the issue became apparent.
 
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taque said:
Hello Everybody,

I'm new on this Forum. I'm from Spain, and I love playing and recording my own music.

I'm trying to buy one of those small and portables (and cheap?) multitrack recorders. I'm getting confused because I found very different prices in internet Shops and usual Shops. Don't like to do this with computers.

I play keyboards and I've got a set with:

- Juno Roland,
- Microkorg
- Roland GW-8 workstation.

I would like if you could advice me on what "mini-studio" is better for me. I have been having a look to 2 machines so far:

- Boss BR-8 (375€)
- Zoom R-8/R-16 (300€)

Any more options?

Please give me some help and sorry my English.

Kindest Regards,

Enrique
Click to expand...

Hi Enrique,

I'm new at this myself so I'm not an expert nor have I ever tried the Zoom. But the Boss Br-800 is a blast! I've been laying down some of my own tunes then only using the puter via USB to change the .wav files to MP3s. It is really gas to use and I got the DVD that covers more than just the manual since I'm new to recording. I love the on-board effects and the editable drum tracks cover a very wide range of genres and beats. Also the vocal effects are so cool, that I even did MY voice! It does have an XLR input and a total of 64 'virtual' tracks.
I'm sure either unit will be a great place to start!

radio
 
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