Loadbox Direct out / Amp FX out clips at instrument level - Need advice!

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Cboysen

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Hi!

Hi, my Audio Interface (Scarlett 2i2) accepts a max input level of -3dBu at Instrument level, but my Loadbox Direct out connected to my 6505+ 112 Amp runs so hot that it clips no matter what.

How do I bring the Direct out signal down so I can use the Mic preamps in the Scarlett 2i2 without clipping?

Would I be needing an active DI box with a -40dB pad or similar?
Will this have any influence on the tone (which atm is really bad)?

Kind regards
Christian
 
I had a quick look at the Scarlett 2i2 info on the Focusrite site.

The line input in the Scarlett should accept a signal of +20dBu so try switching to from "Instrument" to "Line".

Alternatively, use a XLR cable to connect the devices, as the Loadbox manual suggests that a mic level signal is available from its XRL output.

I can't test this as I don't have the hardware.

Paul
 
Why do you want to run your DI-ed amp into a mic preamp? As Paul said, line in is what you want.
 
Mainly because of my lack of knowledge - Having searched and asked around, it seems completely foolish using a DI box between 2 line level signals.

It all starts with me not liking the sound i get out of my 6505+ 112 from the loadbox with various impulses. nearly all of the impulses are either too muffled or they sound like the 'mix' is not set to 100% (even in kefir).
I had a spare moment yesterday, taking my time to hook up the old cab of the 6505+ 112 (I have converted it to head/cab) and to my surprise - that sounded just as bad.. well not really, but all the distinctive 'problems' I was complaining on the impulses was there. Weird high-fizz-kinda sound which just cannot be dialed away even with presence on 3 and post gain on 2. It really sounds like you have two lairs of distortion running simultaneously, if that makes any sense - one that is nicely rounded off, lot's of headroom and just like what you'd expect from a tube-amp distortion. And then there is this 'solid-state'-kinda high-fizz (for lack of better terms) going on.

But well, from what people say, the 6505(+) and the combos are all fizz-monsters, which is something you can't get around easily. But then listening to clips from various 6505+ recordings with an sm57, it just sounds really great - no second lair solid-kinda stuff going on. I'm not talking full mix studio recordings, just semi-professional guitar tracks.
So right now I'm pretty confused of the whole situation - Should I be aiming for new lower-gained power and preamp tubes? - A new amp? new pickups? all of it? or a mix of those?

Kind regards
Christian Boysen
 
Pickups, guitar, and speakers are a huge part of what makes an amp sound the way it does in the clips your hearing. Most people I know (myself included) prefer vintage 30s with that amp.
 
Guitargodgt said:
Pickups, guitar, and speakers are a huge part of what makes an amp sound the way it does in the clips your hearing. Most people I know (myself included) prefer vintage 30s with that amp.
Click to expand...

Definitely V30s! All the impulses I used are V30s, and the speaker in the cab is an eminence governor (a v30 with a tad more neutral curve) - So it's not a speaker thing, I'll try to do my best to record something and see how far I can get with some EQ and multi-band compression and compare it to the original sound and what comes out of my 1x12, and see if it's a thing that can be EQ'ed away.

On a side note - Can a tube-swap make an amp more tight, or is that clearly a playing-technique area?

Christian
 
Cboysen said:
Definitely V30s! All the impulses I used are V30s, and the speaker in the cab is an eminence governor (a v30 with a tad more neutral curve) - So it's not a speaker thing, I'll try to do my best to record something and see how far I can get with some EQ and multi-band compression and compare it to the original sound and what comes out of my 1x12, and see if it's a thing that can be EQ'ed away.

On a side note - Can a tube-swap make an amp more tight, or is that clearly a playing-technique area?

Christian
Click to expand...

Tightness is subjective, but often will be mainly in your technique. You can also add a lot with lower gain, upping your high mids, using a compressor and a noise gate.
I'd probably go Compressor > Gate > Amp > DI or mic'd cab > [if DI, cab impulse] > More specific parametric EQ if needed.
 
Right now its TS808 > Decimator > 6505+ FX out > Impulse > EQ / Multiband Compression

I suppose the tube screamer acts as a sort of compressor already?
 
Cboysen said:
Right now its TS808 > Decimator > 6505+ FX out > Impulse > EQ / Multiband Compression

I suppose the tube screamer acts as a sort of compressor already?
Click to expand...

It compresses in a way. But not in the sense of an actual dedicated compressor. Either way, you don't NEED a compressor anyways. It's just one of the many things you can do to add "tightness". What the tubescreamer can do is boost some of those mids you'll need though. So that's a bonus from it that can also add to it.
I'd put the tube screamer right before the head personally, but I'm sure you'll not really notice much difference. Post some clips up once you've got something down. Would be good to hear how it comes out.
 
Also:

With impulses you have to pick the right one. With most libraries (I have an older version of Recab before they made it a plugin) there are multiple positions. Going through them and selecting one that's between ice pick in the ear and sounds under a blanket is key.

New strings make a difference and so does instrument as well.

FWIW I've never been that thrilled with impulses. I always go with a real mic as the results seem to get better faster. As always YMMV.
 
You're all really helpful, which is so great, so - thank you!

Anyway, I don't know if I got anything 'worth' listening too .. I mean, sure I can upload something, like 14 seconds of can'o'bees, but I take no responsibility for any brain-leakage whatsoever.. but I guess that's why I wrote in the first place..


Kind regards
Christian
 
'yey'...

Anyway.. using Catharsis s-highpres impulse with some EQ-ing..
 
Cboysen said:
'yey'...

Anyway.. using Catharsis s-highpres impulse with some EQ-ing..
Click to expand...

I think it's a pretty good sound you have there mate. I'd certainly use it. No need to be so harsh on yourself!
 
somegeezer said:
I think it's a pretty good sound you have there mate. I'd certainly use it. No need to be so harsh on yourself!
Click to expand...


Well thank you! - I certainly wasn't expecting that... but I guess I'm looking with the wrong pair of glasses. I think my 'idea' of a beautiful gain structure, is something defined and with a lot of clarity. A very 'clean' square-wave rectification?

At the moment I'm usually comparing myself to a clip I found ultimate-metal's Andy Sneap forum...
It seems as if the andy sneap forum is down atm, so I'll just reupload it on dropbox, if that works


*I take no credit whatsoever, and I'll remove this immediately, as I get access to the andy sneap forum again.. "

It seems to sound much more real and authentic, punchy and in-your-face, without any odd distortion happening. Very defined imo.
It could be just the way impulses work, and there would be no way to achieve such smoothness, but I doubt it - I've heard less-gained tracks where I could barely tell the difference between a real mic-up and the impulse.

Kind regards
 
Cboysen said:
Well thank you! - I certainly wasn't expecting that... but I guess I'm looking with the wrong pair of glasses. I think my 'idea' of a beautiful gain structure, is something defined and with a lot of clarity. A very 'clean' square-wave rectification?

At the moment I'm usually comparing myself to a clip I found ultimate-metal's Andy Sneap forum...
It seems as if the andy sneap forum is down atm, so I'll just reupload it on dropbox, if that works


*I take no credit whatsoever, and I'll remove this immediately, as I get access to the andy sneap forum again.. "

It seems to sound much more real and authentic, punchy and in-your-face, without any odd distortion happening. Very defined imo.
It could be just the way impulses work, and there would be no way to achieve such smoothness, but I doubt it - I've heard less-gained tracks where I could barely tell the difference between a real mic-up and the impulse.

Kind regards
Click to expand...

Oddly, I still prefer your sound. =P His guitar sounds very squashed. As subjective a word it is. =P Go with what you have and see what it sounds like with a full band around it. That's when you'll really start to hear where you need to tweak to bring it out more.
 
somegeezer said:
Oddly, I still prefer your sound. =P His guitar sounds very squashed. As subjective a word it is. =P Go with what you have and see what it sounds like with a full band around it. That's when you'll really start to hear where you need to tweak to bring it out more.
Click to expand...

Well thanks! - Really nice of you, and yeah you're so very correct about complete mixes vs a few guitars.. and that's my biggest fear; having a very squashed sound might sound just right since the bass will take care of a lot, and the drums will add some sparkle, where I think the most important aspect of guitars, is how easily it is to recognize the instrument, that is, a 'correct' wave from pick-attack to a few miliseconds in...

I still believe my sound is quite blurred and filled with waay to many 'different' distortions, (again, I really have no idea of the correct term) .. which as said, might be what breaks the clarity in a complete mix and turn everything to mud.

Either way, atm I got no bass, so I'll have to pick one up, like a epiphone thunderbird or something else cheap, to get the right bass line going, instead of some weird pitch-shifting guitar-stuff.. and as far as drum goes, I'm even more a noob - Played around with EZ-drummer a bit, and it sounds real good, but still quite digital and unreal, so better work on that.. maybe in a few weeks I'll come up with something I can put a bit more effort into..

Anyway .. I'm still hoping for someone or something to get me to this magic point of 'great' guitar sound, reading up on slippermans heavy metal guitar guide is a real treat, but still a few 50 pages to go..
 
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