HELP! No output from subgroups!

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siteslinger

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Okay, so I've got a 24-track mixer with 8 subgroups, going into an 8-track tape machine. Each subgroup has an XLR output, and a 1/4" insert patch. I couldn't find XLR-to-RCA cables, so to output to the recorder, I've been using a 1/4"-to-RCA snake, with each 1/4" male plug sticking halfway out of the inserts on each subgroup. It has worked but since it's an insert, the subgroup fader is bypassed.

Now, I got one XLR-to-RCA adaptor, and nothing seems to be coming out of the subgroup XLR output. I've got the subgroup selected on the input channel, and I know the signal reaches the subgroup because it goes out the insert if something is plugged into it, and I can hear it with the PFL. But no matter what, I can't get the VUs on the recorder to even flicker when using the XLR outputs. I've tried every subgroup, and every input channel on the recorder. I've also checked the adaptor, and it passes signal fine. I've also routed the XLR output of the subgroups into another open channel, and get nothing.

What's going on here? Is XLR-to-RCA not possible or something? What am I doing wrong, any ideas?

Thanks!
 
Do you still have that 1/4"-RCA plugged half-way into the insert? If so, it's routing the signal out but not bringing it back.
 
Do you still have that 1/4"-RCA plugged half-way into the insert? If so, it's routing the signal out but not bringing it back.
Click to expand...

No, there's nothing plugged into the inserts. This is maddening, I have no idea what the issue could be...
 
siteslinger said:
Okay, so I've got a 24-track mixer with 8 subgroups, going into an 8-track tape machine. Each subgroup has an XLR output, and a 1/4" insert patch. I couldn't find XLR-to-RCA cables, so to output to the recorder, I've been using a 1/4"-to-RCA snake, with each 1/4" male plug sticking halfway out of the inserts on each subgroup. It has worked but since it's an insert, the subgroup fader is bypassed.

Now, I got one XLR-to-RCA adaptor, and nothing seems to be coming out of the subgroup XLR output. I've got the subgroup selected on the input channel, and I know the signal reaches the subgroup because it goes out the insert if something is plugged into it, and I can hear it with the PFL. But no matter what, I can't get the VUs on the recorder to even flicker when using the XLR outputs. I've tried every subgroup, and every input channel on the recorder. I've also checked the adaptor, and it passes signal fine. I've also routed the XLR output of the subgroups into another open channel, and get nothing.

What's going on here? Is XLR-to-RCA not possible or something? What am I doing wrong, any ideas?

Thanks!
Click to expand...

What brand/model of mixer is it?
 
That's an oldie....

Why not try an XLR-to-XLR cable and plug it back into one of the mic channels (watch your level, pad the mic input, and watch the channel routing so you don't get a nasty feedback loop)...at least that way you will see if it has something to do with the XLR-to-RCA conversion cable.

If it's still not passing any audio at all still...then it might be an internal problem, but if it does pass audio with the XLR/XLR, then check the wiring of the XLR/RCA conversion cable....check that the correct XLR pins go to the correct RCA +/-......
 
Why not try an XLR-to-XLR cable and plug it back into one of the mic channels (watch your level, pad the mic input, and watch the channel routing so you don't get a nasty feedback loop)...at least that way you will see if it has something to do with the XLR-to-RCA conversion cable.

If it's still not passing any audio at all still...then it might be an internal problem, but if it does pass audio with the XLR/XLR, then check the wiring of the XLR/RCA conversion cable....check that the correct XLR pins go to the correct RCA +/-......
Click to expand...

Ah ha! You're a genius. Yes, it must be wired to the wrong XLR pins. At least now I can rest a little easier knowing there's nothing wrong with the console, so thank you so much. Now I just need to find a suitable cable...
 
Now, what I don't understand is, the RCA end of the adapter is wired to pin 2 on the XLR. Isn't this how it's supposed to be?
 
I would test it by using a Direct box backwards, with a 1/4 inch to rca adapter on the other end.
 
siteslinger said:
Now, what I don't understand is, the RCA end of the adapter is wired to pin 2 on the XLR. Isn't this how it's supposed to be?
Click to expand...

Mmmmmm...yeah, for the most part these days it's Pin 2-Hot, Pin 3-Cold and Pin 1-Ground...but maybe your console is wired with Pin 3-Hot. Back in the day, not everyone followed the Pin 2-Hot standard. My console was wired with Pin 3-Hot...and I ended up rewiring it just to keep everything the same, rather than always using conversion cables.

Again...take the output of a Sub-channel and plug it back into a Mic channel...that keeps the signal all within the console, so there's no question about wiring standards...just watch the levels and don't create a feedback loop. Feed the Sub with one channel, but bring it back into a different channel going to a different Sub, that way you will know if everything on the board is passing signal before you start adding conversion cables and any other kind of adapters. A simple 1KHz test tone will work the best.
Just use a known-good, wired-the-same-at-both-ends XLR mic cable to connect the Sub to the Mic channel.

If that passes signal...it's not the board....though you then need to confirm which wiring standard the board is using for balanced - XLR connections...and then go from there with the adapters and conversion cables.
 
Thanks so much man, you were right again! I rewired the RCA wire to pin 3, and voila! The VUs on the tape machine lit up!

Now I get to buy 9 more and rewire each of them the same way...Thanks again for your help!
 
Glad it worked out with just a simple fix and not anything serious with the board.

Now keep that in mind now when you plug in other balanced sources/devices.
Like if you use an outboard Pin 2+ preamp for one mic, but use the console's Pin 3+ preamp for a different mic...you will have a polarity mismatch....so you need to "flip" one of them.
You can rewire a bunch of your cables at one end and use them with the console...but that's why I ended up just rewiring my console to Pin 2+, as I didn't want to always have that question on my mind when connecting things....like, did I remember to use the "special" cable....?????

I have maybe two other Pin 3+ pieces of gear in my racks, and I simply rewired the cables at one end that goe to the patchbays...that way everything is now Pin 2+...so never any question in my mind about it. :)

It's not a major issue in most cases having the Pin 3+...but there are times when you need to "flip" it to avoid problems.
 
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