R
RAMI
Guest
I think it's a simple case of mixing up terms. Every mic needs a pre-amp, or "pre-amp power" as you put it. That's not the same as "Phantom power".
Drum Recording Tips Please (Mixer Or No Mixer?)
- Thread starter unicursalhex
- Start date
Farview
Well-known member
Any sentence that starts with "A guy at Guitar Center said..." is generally incorrect, misleading or a down-right lie.
All mics need a preamp to bring the level from mic level to line level.
Some mics need phantom power to run them.
"Preamp power" is not a recognized term.
All mics need a preamp to bring the level from mic level to line level.
Some mics need phantom power to run them.
"Preamp power" is not a recognized term.
unicursalhex
New member
Thanks everyone. I looked up the Focusrite liquid saffire, It seems pretty cool but once again I am retarded and can't understand it fully, like Karl Childers reading the bible...Guitar Center dudes don't usually know what are they talking about (with some rare exeptions), so forget everything they have told you
Anyway the first guy was right - you need phantom power only for condenser mics.
I'm using Focusrite Liquid Saffire 56 firewire interface for about half year now - great interface imo
I reckon is this a good interface for drum recording? Its kinda vague as to how many channels there are, apparently I need at least 9 preamps. Whats the deal with the 2 Liquid preamps? They sound pretty cool. It appears every channel has phantom power so I would be good with the condensors.
Steenamaroo
...
That focusrite has 6 preamps and bucketloads of other stuff that you don't need.
I'd recommend either blindly taking Jimmy's advice, or taking some time out to read and fully understand what you're buying.
There are plenty of threads here that outline the basics.
Either option will save you a lot of cash.
EDIT
Also, you say "apparently I need at least nine preamps" ?
According to whom? I'd start with four, (kick snare and two overheads) then see how you get on.
You may be surprised how many people here started out with a million kit mics and then gradually 'progressed' to four or so.
It totally depends on what you're recording though, so don't get me wrong, you might need nine for all i know.
I'd recommend either blindly taking Jimmy's advice, or taking some time out to read and fully understand what you're buying.
There are plenty of threads here that outline the basics.
Either option will save you a lot of cash.
EDIT
Also, you say "apparently I need at least nine preamps" ?
According to whom? I'd start with four, (kick snare and two overheads) then see how you get on.
You may be surprised how many people here started out with a million kit mics and then gradually 'progressed' to four or so.
It totally depends on what you're recording though, so don't get me wrong, you might need nine for all i know.
grimtraveller
If only for a moment.....
The most reliable source imaginable under the circumstances ~ himself !
unicursalhex
New member
I don't know I'm just going off what you guys are telling me. From what I now understand I need a preamp for every mic and phantom power for the condensers. all of those total 9 as of now. My kit is large and sounds incredible and I want that to come through in recording, so not micing every drum isn't an option for me. Any interface recommendations would be appreciated
unicursalhex
New member
What do you guys think about this Allen Heath thingy
ZED-R16 | ALLEN & HEATH // WORLD CLASS MIXING
It appears to be an interface and mixer in one. How does it perform as both an interface and mixer? It would be nice to have a great interface and a control surface in one box. Plus it looks like each mic recording can be a separate track in the DAW which is also cool.
ZED-R16 | ALLEN & HEATH // WORLD CLASS MIXING
It appears to be an interface and mixer in one. How does it perform as both an interface and mixer? It would be nice to have a great interface and a control surface in one box. Plus it looks like each mic recording can be a separate track in the DAW which is also cool.
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brother rat
All mics sound the same.
You really seem intent on using a mixer. You also seem intent on spending lots of cash. That ZED-R16 is a beautiful piece of equipment. Someone who really knew how to massage that mixer properly would be able to get amazing results.
Since you still seem stumped on very basic issues here, I would recommend - as others already have - that you start simple and get a sound you're happy with and then expand as necessary.
It's awesome that you have a top-of-the-line drum kit. As far as I know, you haven't mentioned exactly which mics you're using. The mics will affect your sound considerably. Unless you are using incredible mics, you won't get the incredible sound you're looking for.
I'm not trying to discourage you, it's just that these things take time.
Since you still seem stumped on very basic issues here, I would recommend - as others already have - that you start simple and get a sound you're happy with and then expand as necessary.
It's awesome that you have a top-of-the-line drum kit. As far as I know, you haven't mentioned exactly which mics you're using. The mics will affect your sound considerably. Unless you are using incredible mics, you won't get the incredible sound you're looking for.
I'm not trying to discourage you, it's just that these things take time.
Bobbsy
Boring Old Git
The Tascam US 1800 only has 8 mic inputs though so that might not be enough.
The Echo interface is a very good one. If you ARE willing to spend up to $1000 on a mixer, you could have a look at the Allen & Heath Mix Wizard 16:2. It's in the "under $1000" bracket (as in $999 at many places) and has excellent pre-amps and EQ. It would also give you a few spare inputs to bring up outputs from your Audiofire for monitoring purposes etc. I don't recommend cheap mixers but, for you budget, you'd be getting a mixer that is getting into "professional quality" territory.
Edited to add: I got called away to dinner halfway through posting and didn't notice the new replies.
Yes, if you can return the Echo box, the A&H Zed R16 is highly recommended. As I said above, I don't normally recommend mixers when we're talking things like Behringers...but a good one like an A&H can be worth having. My one caution is that, before assuming you have a control surface, make sure it's compatible with the DAW you use. Even without the control surface, it's still a worthwhile mixer though.
The Echo interface is a very good one. If you ARE willing to spend up to $1000 on a mixer, you could have a look at the Allen & Heath Mix Wizard 16:2. It's in the "under $1000" bracket (as in $999 at many places) and has excellent pre-amps and EQ. It would also give you a few spare inputs to bring up outputs from your Audiofire for monitoring purposes etc. I don't recommend cheap mixers but, for you budget, you'd be getting a mixer that is getting into "professional quality" territory.
Edited to add: I got called away to dinner halfway through posting and didn't notice the new replies.
Yes, if you can return the Echo box, the A&H Zed R16 is highly recommended. As I said above, I don't normally recommend mixers when we're talking things like Behringers...but a good one like an A&H can be worth having. My one caution is that, before assuming you have a control surface, make sure it's compatible with the DAW you use. Even without the control surface, it's still a worthwhile mixer though.
R
RAMI
Guest
Not trying to steer you away from whatever you're convinced you want to do. But, don't think more mics is going to mean less potential problems. Even if you mic every drum separately, you'll still be getting the vast majority of your drum sound from your overheads, so I would recommend learning about and experimenting with overhead placement thoroughly. That's where where most of your sound will come from.
All I'm saying is, don't expect to throw 9 mics up and expect it to sound good. More is definitely not always better. The most imprtant part of your set up will be your 2 overheads. Druum micing is something that takes a lot of study, expirimentation and isn't just a matter of having a lot of mics. Be prepared for disappointment the first couple of times you record. But, at least you have the most important part taken care of. You say you're kit sounds amazing, and that's a huge part of getting a good recording.
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Steenamaroo
...
I don't see how, unless you're saying you own nine?
You'd need one preamp channel for every mic that your using.
You can still choose to use any number of mics.
I'd be shocked if anyone on here recommended nine at once for a kit.
Again you've made a mad leap IMO.
If the kit sounds that great, find a nice room and use three mics!
More definitely does not always mean better.
Farview
Well-known member
All of this depends on what style of drumming and genre of music he is playing. A 3 or 4 mic setup will not work for a kit with 2 kicks and 5 toms in a prog metal-type situation. It just wont. In anything remotely like that, you don't/can't rely on the overheads to get most of the drum sound.
I've been known to use 11 mics on a 5 piece kit.
Inside and outside kick
top and bottom snare
toms 1,2,3
hat
ride
2 overheads
There is absolutely nothing wrong with micing everything , and that is the only way to get certain drum sounds.
While I agree that if he is playing a style of music that would take kindly to the 3 or 4 mic setup, it would be a good thing to do, but somehow I'm getting the idea he is doing something that requires a close miced setup.
I've been known to use 11 mics on a 5 piece kit.
Inside and outside kick
top and bottom snare
toms 1,2,3
hat
ride
2 overheads
There is absolutely nothing wrong with micing everything , and that is the only way to get certain drum sounds.
While I agree that if he is playing a style of music that would take kindly to the 3 or 4 mic setup, it would be a good thing to do, but somehow I'm getting the idea he is doing something that requires a close miced setup.
Steenamaroo
...
Farview and Bobbsy, I do agree.
I said earlier on that the OP may genuinely require stacks of mics, depending on what he's doing, but at the minute it sounds like he's just assuming.
I assumed the same at the start and it cost me money and time so it's worth mentioning i think.
I said earlier on that the OP may genuinely require stacks of mics, depending on what he's doing, but at the minute it sounds like he's just assuming.
I assumed the same at the start and it cost me money and time so it's worth mentioning i think.
R
RAMI
Guest
Yes, I agree with both you guys. If it sounded like I was saying he SHOULDN'T use 9 mics, that's not what I meant. It just seemed like he was thinking that throwing up 9 mics on his kit will pbe a pic-nic. My point is that, if his kit does sound as awesome as he's saying, that won't automatically be re-produced by throwing a mic at every drum and cymbal. The overheads is still where most of the meat of his sound should come from, and unless one has at least a basic knowledge of overhead micing techniques and avoiding phase issues, etc....it's not going to be as easy as he might think.
unicursalhex
New member
Thanks for the advice! The mics are OK, they are Audix D2's, D4's, D6's, i5, and ADX51 overheads. I am going to replace the overheads soon, not
"Since you still seem stumped on very basic issues here, I would recommend - as others already have - that you start simple and get a sound you're happy with and then expand as necessary"
I'm a weirdo, I will save for years to get the the best of pretty much anything I'm interested in. I have started out small and always been bummed when I think about how I could have just gotten the good _____, so now I just go big and have no regrets thus far. Plus I shop ebay for months if I have to to get a smokin deal and typically resale and make a slight profit or break even. Allthough I'm stumped on basic issues I am learning fast and your (everyone who is contributing to this thread) help streamlines that process so once again, thanks everyone.
"Not trying to steer you away from whatever you're convinced you want to do. But, don't think more mics is going to mean less potential problems. Even if you mic every drum separately, you'll still be getting the vast majority of your drum sound from your overheads, so I would recommend learning about and experimenting with overhead placement thoroughly. That's where where most of your sound will come from.
All I'm saying is, don't expect to throw 9 mics up and expect it to sound good. More is definitely not always better. The most imprtant part of your set up will be your 2 overheads. Druum micing is something that takes a lot of study, expirimentation and isn't just a matter of having a lot of mics. Be prepared for disappointment the first couple of times you record. But, at least you have the most important part taken care of. You say you're kit sounds amazing, and that's a huge part of getting a good recording."
I'm not convinced to do anything just yet, everyone here has different opinions so I'm trying to find what works best for what I'm trying to do. I don't know a ton about drum micing but unlike mixers, interfaces, DAW and the like, I have done research in the past and It seems that drummers that get the best sound don't do it without micing every drum, some dudes like Danny Carey apparently mic both the top and bottom heads! But what do I know, what I do know is that I have 9 mic'd drums and need to get rollin. I have also read about the importance of overhead placement, and the importance of quality overheads (which I don't have) but the KM84's are going to have to wait until I win the lottery...
"The Tascam US 1800 only has 8 mic inputs though so that might not be enough.
The Echo interface is a very good one. If you ARE willing to spend up to $1000 on a mixer, you could have a look at the Allen & Heath Mix Wizard 16:2. It's in the "under $1000" bracket (as in $999 at many places) and has excellent pre-amps and EQ. It would also give you a few spare inputs to bring up outputs from your Audiofire for monitoring purposes etc. I don't recommend cheap mixers but, for you budget, you'd be getting a mixer that is getting into "professional quality" territory.
Edited to add: I got called away to dinner halfway through posting and didn't notice the new replies.
Yes, if you can return the Echo box, the A&H Zed R16 is highly recommended. As I said above, I don't normally recommend mixers when we're talking things like Behringers...but a good one like an A&H can be worth having. My one caution is that, before assuming you have a control surface, make sure it's compatible with the DAW you use. Even without the control surface, it's still a worthwhile mixer though."
Thanks. The Echo is on its way back. I am getting wood the more I read about the R16, from a drummers standpoint I'm not sure if it gets much better in that price range (please correct me if I'm wrong!), seems like a quality device. I'm pretty sure that thing works with Pro tools?
Bobbsy
Boring Old Git
Yup. The R16 is a darn good mixer for the money (Allen and Heath don't make bad mixers). My only quibble is the 60mm faders...I'd have preferred 100mm like the Mix Wiz but even Midas made the Venice with 60mm faders.
Yes, it'll work with Protools. You'll have to do some manual setting up and you'll need the MIDI to HUI converter that you can download from the A&H site HERE. The same URL also has the set up manual for using the mixer as a control surface with Pro Tools so you can check on software versions etc.
As for your mics, I'm a fan of the Audix drum kits. You can gradually start to mix and match other mics as you like (yeah, start with the overheads) but the D6 is my favourite kick mic even when I use other things elsewhere.
unicursalhex
New member
Cool thanks for the info. I think I'm going to jump on the R16. I also heard good things about the Audix mic's I got, we'll see how it goes!
guitarguy101
New member
Hey OP, could you list all the mics you are using, and what drums they are on? I was looking to expand my drum miking capability, and I think someone who is inept at doing it could give me a few pointers,
Thanks
Thanks
grimtraveller
If only for a moment.....
If language were liquid.........
Language is so troublesome, in or out of cyberspace !
Does that mean the OP is inept or that anyone could give you pointers, even someone who is inept ?
Language is so troublesome, in or out of cyberspace !