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Greg_L
Banned
I don't get everyone's constant bitching about Gibson. Just don't buy one. Most "musicians" can't afford new Gibsons anyway. Is that what you guys are bitching about? They're too expensive for you?
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stevieb
Just another guy, really.
I can really only answer for myself, Greg, but I think the general discontent is because Gibson is making musical instruments less and less, in favor of "collector's items," and like most CI's, many Gibsons are just not all that. Using the HD Gibson as an example (and I did not cherry-pick a Gibson that I thought would prove my point,) a website contends it is a good investment, but I don't see it- it's value has only gone up an average of 3% a year, from 1995 to 2008 (the last year that site tracked it's value, apparently.) A 5-year CD bought today would return a 2.2% guaranteed profit. But wait- there are TWO HD Gibsons on Atlanta Craigslist right now- at $1,600 and 1,700, NOT the $2,700 that site would have one believe it is worth. Further, GC has one listed, at... $2,700. It seems the guitar's value has gone flat for the last 3 years- at best, and at worst has dropped $1,000 in the last three years, or $300 since 1995, when they were first offered.
Of course, if you actually play the thing, it is worth even less. Musical instruments are meant to be played, so if it's gotta sit in the case, in a box, in the closet, it is, arguably, NOT a "musical instrument." One could argue, I suppose, that some guitars did, indeed, sit in the closet for decades, but that was not the original intent, but rather just how things happened. Those were made and sold as musical instruments, they just became collector's items by accident.
You are right, in part- most new Gibsons are too pricy for me. But, just like they are too expensive for most "musicians," they are also too expensive for most musicians- posers and players alike can't afford them. Most of the people who can afford them are really just posers- posers with lots of money, but posers all the same.
Of course, if you actually play the thing, it is worth even less. Musical instruments are meant to be played, so if it's gotta sit in the case, in a box, in the closet, it is, arguably, NOT a "musical instrument." One could argue, I suppose, that some guitars did, indeed, sit in the closet for decades, but that was not the original intent, but rather just how things happened. Those were made and sold as musical instruments, they just became collector's items by accident.
You are right, in part- most new Gibsons are too pricy for me. But, just like they are too expensive for most "musicians," they are also too expensive for most musicians- posers and players alike can't afford them. Most of the people who can afford them are really just posers- posers with lots of money, but posers all the same.
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Greg_L
Banned
Okay, fair enough, but so what? I don't pay too much attention to new Gibsons, but it seems to me that the Les Paul seems to be the model of choice for "custom shop" collectible nonsense. New SG's, V's, Explorers, Melody Makers and the like still seem to be relatively reasonably priced and playable. Besides, there's a billion used Gibsons out there that can be had and played for good prices, and they all sound better than Fenders.
legionserial
New member
Just buy a fucking Epiphone.
Lt. Bob
Spread the Daf!
wow ..... an actual exchange regarding the topic between gerg and stevieb ........ close the thread NOW!! The planets have aligned ...... we must not waste this kumbaya moment.
miroslav
Cosmic Cowboy
Good one LT!
I agree with stevieb...and Greg also has the right attitude (don't buy one).
I've been tempted several times to buy a Gibson LP (or an SG, though I agree, the LPs are the most "collectible")...not because I think an LP is THAT great, but they DO hold resale value because there are enough schmucks willing to pay crazy prices for the real vintage LP stuff...and that also helps push up the prices of the more current stuff.
However, I always end up having a sober moment before I buy...and then I go out and get a nice $500 guitar and spend the other $1000-$1500 on some more studio gear!
muttley600
Banned
Gerg is right about second hand thing and I'd include many of the not so familiar archtop models as killer buys if you hunt them out. As far as the cost goes. They charge what they can get away with. We all do. I think some people are confusing some of their flagship models as standard fare, they are not they are designed just like top of the line cars with all the add ons and are there to promote the company and lead the line. The real bulk of their sales is in standard workhorse instruments. The all bells and whistles stuff is for promoting the brand and what is possible for them.
If you really want to knock a company for building over priced and deliberately pretty stuff at the expense of function then pile on PRS.
If you really want to knock a company for building over priced and deliberately pretty stuff at the expense of function then pile on PRS.
TetraFish
Well-known member
Why does the ability to afford a guitar = Poser?
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stevieb
Just another guy, really.
Point taken. I probably reacted to the "HD" connection as much as the Gibson one- I find Harleys to be about the stupidest motorcycle made, these days- even more so than Royal Enfields!
Actually, that's exactly what I did!
Didn't mean to imply that. What I meant was, the people who buy "collector" guitars are often not even players, or not very good players.
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K Road
New member
I've played an LP for about a quarter century now. It's a good axe. It's my "go for" axe for chords and comping (not for solos though). I bought it second hand - saved a lot of do$h. But the truth is, as we all know, you can find (if you look and you know what to look for) a cheapo Korean that plays just as good without the snob value. Me? I'm just a fuckin' snob, because, well, I got one, so why not? How many times can the substance of this thread be repeated??? Unfuckin believable! Next up... Fender Stratocasters, to be followed by Telecasters, to be followed by Jap. V. Mex. V. 'Mercan V. Korean V. Indo. V. Chinese. And so it goes.
bouldersoundguy
Well-known member
The parts he forgot to mention: Good paying office job = ability to afford a stupid expensive guitar that never gets played out = poser. Works about the same with Harleys.
ido1957
9K Gold Member
Time for a poser def thread!
Lt. Bob
Spread the Daf!
I like almost all guitars. I don't find any of the good brands to be so much better nowadays than the mid-level brands that it's just absolutely neccessary to spend the money. Look at what you can get from Carvin for a grand. look at the 600 dollar Jacksons ....... there's LOTS of stuff in the sub 1000 dollar range that's both pretty and good sounding and playing.
A tele for 2 or 3 thousand is one of the dumbest to me. Hell ...... it's just a plank with a neck bolted to it no matter how nicely they polish the finish.
I love cheap gits and with the Cad machines now ..... it's easy for any country to make a passable guitar.
If your eyes light up at the idea of having a prestige guitar I understand and get one for yourself ..... you'll love it I'm sure.
But not for me.
A tele for 2 or 3 thousand is one of the dumbest to me. Hell ...... it's just a plank with a neck bolted to it no matter how nicely they polish the finish.
I love cheap gits and with the Cad machines now ..... it's easy for any country to make a passable guitar.
If your eyes light up at the idea of having a prestige guitar I understand and get one for yourself ..... you'll love it I'm sure.
But not for me.
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Greg_L
Banned
I agree with ya there. I mostly hate Harley's. Total overpriced stone-age junk. I kind of like some of the new-ish stripped down sportster models, but I'd never buy one.
miroslav
Cosmic Cowboy
I agree that new Hogs are way over-priced...but I still like seeing some of the older ones all done up nicely (not over-done)...
...and there is something about the ride vibe, though now you got a lot of V-Twin stuff out there by other makers.
The only bike I ever owned was a Kawasaki 900 Z1R, that's when i was into high-speed riding....but I wouldn't mind having a big fat Harley just to cruise on once in awhile, though I can't see dropping $20k for a new one.
...and there is something about the ride vibe, though now you got a lot of V-Twin stuff out there by other makers.
The only bike I ever owned was a Kawasaki 900 Z1R, that's when i was into high-speed riding....but I wouldn't mind having a big fat Harley just to cruise on once in awhile, though I can't see dropping $20k for a new one.
muttley600
Banned
... and just for the record Royal Enfield originals are the dogs gonads..
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Greg_L
Banned
You know what I hate more than Harley bikes? Harley mentality. Big, fat, dumb, white-trash rednecks in leather that think their oil leaking, smoke belching, retardedly loud relic in chrome is the only bike that matters. My last sportbike had half the engine and made twice the horsepower of your average Hardly Ableson. It started right up every time, sipped gas, didn't rattle itself apart, and didn't leak any fluids either.
miroslav
Cosmic Cowboy
The thing I like the most about the "Harley Mentality" is how everyone runs out and gets a tattoo and starts wearing a bandanna right after they buy a Harley!
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Greg_L
Banned
The thing I like the most about the "Harley Mentality" is how everyone runs out and gets a tattoo and starts wearing a bandanna right after they buy a Harley!
Exactly. A real "biker" wouldn't be riding a shiny, polished, blinged out Harley with all the clothing accessories. He'd be riding some bobber that he built himself out of spare parts and wearing whatever he had on when he rolled out of bed.