What are phase issues/problems

  • Thread starter Thread starter MrStitch
  • Start date Start date
Should also note that the 'missing sound' issue has been occurring before we got our subs. We noticed it when we got our mains, but made them work for our needs, and then REALLY noticed it when we got the subs. We're all like "WTF... this $hit ain't movin'!"
 
I read the manual on parallel input mode and it just allows you to drive both output channels independently with a mono input, so it
looks like you are using it correctly.

Run some bass beats through it for testing and that should be a good test.
The lack of a crossover isn't causing your problem, but a line level crossover will roll off the high frequencies going to the sub amp
and it won't waste energy amplifying frequencies that the sub cannot reproduce.
 
Regarding the line level crossover - Would this be the same as a pass filter? We have one on each of the channels of the EQ. Pretty sure i set it up correctly.
 
Stitch, Take the eq out of the loop for now.

Just unplug it, or set it to flat it then test.
If you're setting it to flat make sure there is no low cut switch engaged.

Let us know what that does.


Also, where is your audio coming from. Is it definitely a full range signal?
 
The audio is coming from our Yamaha mixer. The band runs through that, plus an MP3 player during breaks.

Side note - Between the two amps, mains and subs, if i calculated everything correctly there should be about 2200 watts of sound pumping. We run this rig in small clubs (around 100 people or less), and the amps are running at 3/4 or a little more. Could be inexperience talking, but with that much juice running that hot, i would think that the kick drum alone would make you go deaf... but as it sits right now, it's 'just good enough'.
 
Steenamaroo said:
So, say you have a song with drums bass guitar and vocals in the main mix.

You patch the bass to one of the headphone mixes as you're describing.

Would bass still be sent to the main mix?
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Yup. Ten Characters :cursing:
 
Here's the EQ that we're running - Applied Research & Technology: Graphic Equalizers

The top channel is running our mains, and the bottom channel is for our subs. You know, i really don't think i have a full understanding of how the hi-pass and low-pass knobs work, and most importantly... how they work together.

If the hi-pass is set to 40hz - Then everything ABOVE 40 hz is CUT OFF
If the low-pass is set to 10khz - Then everything BELOW 10khz is CUT OFF

Is that right? But wouldn't that make a hole?
 
If the hi-pass is set to 40hz - Then everything ABOVE 40 hz Passes
If the low-pass is set to 10khz - Then everything BELOW 10khz is passes

I believe.
 
Steenamaroo said:
Sweet. I think that's the answer then.

You hearing the main mix, say with 10ms latency, and the direct bass with no latency.
Phase cancellation!!
Click to expand...

But that's the way it's supposed to work. Otherwise everyone else would lose the bass. I should point out that in this situation I wasn't recording so the mix and the instrument are all going direct. In my mind the latency should be the same. Just seams like there should be some sort of adjustment you could make.
 
Steenamaroo said:
If the hi-pass is set to 40hz - Then everything ABOVE 40 hz Passes
If the low-pass is set to 10khz - Then everything BELOW 10khz is passes

I believe.
Click to expand...

Can I get a witness! You believe in the truth!
 
TetraFish said:
But that's the way it's supposed to work. Otherwise everyone else would lose the bass. I should point out that in this situation I wasn't recording so the mix and the instrument are all going direct. In my mind the latency should be the same. Just seams like there should be some sort of adjustment you could make.
Click to expand...

Sorry man, I don't think i follow your setup.


Is your daw providing the stereo mix, or is your interface giving your a direct stereo mix, like a mixing desk would do?


How are you sending the bass/whatever instrument to the main mix and to a separate channel of the headphone amp?
 
Steenamaroo said:
Sorry man, I don't think i follow your setup.

The instruments are all going direct into your interface.
Does your daw have to be open to provide the stereo mix, or is your interface giving out a direct monitor of everything.


How are you sending the bass to the main mix and a separate channel of the headphone amp?
Click to expand...

The FS has software that lets you route pretty much anything anywhere. So For the main outs I've created a mix in the FS software and routed it to mains which is connected to the MIX A input of the HP60. Then I have a click going to MIX B on the HP60. Each channel on the HP60 lets you mix A&B together so anyone who wants click can get it. Then in addition to being able to route a mix to a pair of outs I can also send a single instrument (or any other input for that matter) to an individual out (I've got 8). So I've got those outs going to the respective channels on the HP60. So for example the bass player should be able to hear MIX A and have MIX b (the click) as well as being able to add more of his individual instrument to the mix.

Like I said it's pretty much exactly like that diagram but I'm not using a DAW and I've got more individual outs, They just have Bass and Vocals and I had 5.
 
OK, that's kinda got me stumped.

What you're saying should work. (You knew that!)

I noticed that my analogue outs have greater latency than my main outs on the motu828 mk2.

Try just plugging in one mic.
Route it to main mix out, and mix a of the hp60.

Then route it as an 'individual' instrument to mix B.

Put your cans on and talk, moving the mix pot between A+B.

Theoretically it should be seamless.
 
MrStitch said:
First good news i heard on this subject in a while! To be clear, one channel on the amp is driving one sub, and the other channel of the amp is driving the other sub. There are no other speakers attached. Also, our amp has a selection to gang the channels (or whatever its called), so basically we only have ONE input running to the amp (from ONE channel on our 31 band EQ), but the amp splits the signal internally to both channels. I cannot turn off an individual channel, but i can change the settings so that it doesn't do the 'gang' thing anymore and also completely disconnect the cable running to one sub.
Click to expand...

Most amp makers call that parallel mode. You can leave it on and disconnect one sub speaker cable.

MrStitch said:
Does this situation still sound like a polarity issue, phase issue, or missing crossover issue? If it's a polarity issue, then what leads are we talking about... you talking about the cable from the - mixer to eq? eq to amp? amp to speaker? internal speaker wiring? (got me all excited now! LOL)
Click to expand...

It sounds like polarity to me. An amp in bridge mode would do that so you have to be sure that isn't the case. If bridge mode is not the problem then it's either the speaker cable or the wiring in the speaker.
 
MrStitch said:
Regarding the line level crossover - Would this be the same as a pass filter? We have one on each of the channels of the EQ. Pretty sure i set it up correctly.
Click to expand...

A crossover is a pair of matched complementary high pass and low pass filters. It takes the lows out of the main speakers and the highs out of the subs. You don't want the subs and tops to be reproducing the same frequencies.
 
Someone in another thread mentioned their speakers were wired incorrectly on the inside. If the wires were going to the wrong metal stubs, would cause a polarity issue?
 
yes.
I think i asked you earlier if anyone had ever repaired them or replaced the drivers?
This is why.

Sorry, I think I forgot to follow that up.
 
It's been a LOOOOOOONG time sine i wired an actual speaker. To make sure it's wired correctly, what am i looking for? Black and white wires, with white going to the largest metal stub on the speaker?
 
MrStitch said:
It's been a LOOOOOOONG time sine i wired an actual speaker. To make sure it's wired correctly, what am i looking for? Black and white wires, with white going to the largest metal stub on the speaker?
Click to expand...

You can use a 9V battery to test the polarity of a woofer by briefly connecting it to the terminals. When the small contact of the battery is connected to the positive terminal and the large contact is connected to the negative terminal the speaker will move outward.
 
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