Live sound question 3!!!and 4!!!!

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rockironwebb

senior newbie caveman
Assuming that the peavey cs-400 pa amp I am using were hooked up to pa speakers of ideal wattage and ohms,
How loud should I expect this setup to be?
I know speaker size will affect loudness.

Could this amp be functional but not putting out as much power as it should?

I am almost positive that the speakers aren't even PA loud speakers (Pro studio 15in and a crap horn in an old beat to hell wedge box)------I have googled away and mostly seen them as home audio speakers.( closest specs I could find was the same make 12in speaker that was 160watts rms, I assume the 15inch would be more)
Any I am positive I have mismatched wattage.
But I also suspect that the amp is old as hell and may not be putting out it's claimed wattage.
Do Amps "wear out" without blowing altogether?
I know, I know,:confused: I am such a rookie.


Oh yeah, when hooked up to the speakers I mentioned, I can turn the amp all the way up and it would not be louder than steady drumming.
I may be a caveman drummer, but I am pretty sure it is never good to have to turn a level up to max.
 
Loudness is going to depend on the sensitivity of the speakers (specified as dB SPL @ 1metre, when driven by 1 watt), the listening distance from the speakers, and whether the set-up is indoors or out.
 
Sorry for being too general. It is for my bands practice space (my basement)
I guess what I am trying to get at is should this amp (peavey cs-400, 200watts rms per channel) when connected to appropriate speakers be loud enough for vocals during live band rehearsal with two guitarist (crate 120 2x12,,5150 4x12) a bassist(???uses hartke head and two big ass bass speakers) and me the drummer.
Got this amp as part of a package trade deal.
I am pretty sure the speakers that came with it are not a good match wattage wise.,
As it is now I can not hear the speakers over myself singing with amp turned all the way up.
 
rockironwebb said:
I guess what I am trying to get at is should this amp (peavey cs-400, 200watts rms per channel) when connected to appropriate speakers be loud enough for vocals during live band rehearsal with two guitarist (crate 120 2x12,,5150 4x12) a bassist(???uses hartke head and two big ass bass speakers) and me the drummer.
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The answer is no. You will need at least 4-5 times more wattage to even begin to hear yourselves.
 
What would an Amp like this typically be used for if it doesn't even have enough power to be loud enough for a live band?
 
It's highly unlikely that age has reduced the power output of your amp. Age tends to cause a total failure, not a gradual loss of power.

Two things to consider: first, in terms of a PA amp, 120 watts into 8 ohms is pretty little power, as is 200 watts into 4 ohms. If you just want to drive a wedge to hear yourself while practising, maybe you should consider using "bridge" mode to give you 400 watts into 4 ohms for a single speaker.

Second, as several have said, the efficiency of your speaker makes a huge difference. Really good speakers can give 20+dB more output from the same power--but you tend to pay for efficiency.

Finally, speaker efficiency aside, this isn't a game where you can get something for nothing. There's only so much amp power to go around so (to over simplify) adding more speakers to the same amp doesn't make things louder overall--it just spreads the available power a bit more thinly.
 
rockironwebb said:
What would an Amp like this typically be used for if it doesn't even have enough power to be loud enough for a live band?
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Well, where I saw it used previously, it drove two fairly efficient 4 ohm monitor wedges quite well--but this was a theatre setting, not an attempt to do loud rock music.
 
I was not wanting to add more speakers, I was wanting to replace the ones I have, if it is worth the money.
Sounds like I may be better off just starting from scratch and getting the right gear for the job instead of clinging to my cheap ass pack rat ways and trying to avoid spending money at any cost.
My wife has forced me to change my definition of wants and needs.
I say I need better gear so I can rock out.
Thanx for the help fellas.
 
fiasco123 said:
I was contacted within 24 hours. At least 5 in three years. The second time I was offered a direct computer link to find out the source of my issues remotely.
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Nice to know. Thanks for sharing.

Everybody.... red alert is over.... stand down. Breathe.....
 
fiasco123 said:
I was contacted within 24 hours. At least 5 in three years. The second time I was offered a direct computer link to find out the source of my issues remotely.
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What is your deal dood? Stop it already.:spank:
 
Sounds to me like something's wrong if that set up isn't loud enough to overcome un-mic'd drums. What are you singing through? Maybe the mic, mixer, or something else in your set up is the problem and not the amp.
 
I guess anything is possible, but in small venues I've been unable to "overcome" un-miked drums with considerably more amplification than is being talked about here. Drums are naturally loud!
 
Sell your set up and buy something nice.

In my practice space, we use a 1000 watt(I think) PA into two 400 watt speakers and still have trouble hearing the vocals. You get what you pay for in this biz
 
Bobbsy said:
I guess anything is possible, but in small venues I've been unable to "overcome" un-miked drums with considerably more amplification than is being talked about here. Drums are naturally loud!
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We used a crappy Harmin Kardon home stereo amp for a monitor amp and Bose 901s for monitors on stage for a few years and never had a problem hearing the vocals. Until it burned up during a show that is ...


Edit: My bad, I thought we were talking monitor amps for some reason and not main PA amps.
 
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I'm sure it depends on the drummer's style, the level of the rest of the stage wash...and the efficiency of the speakers in use. But 125-200 watts isn't an awful lot of power in a typical PA environment so it doesn't necessarily imply a fault if, especially when coupled with unknown cheapie speakers, it's not enough to lift vocals above the rest of the band.
 
rockironwebb said:
Sorry for being too general. It is for my bands practice space (my basement)
I guess what I am trying to get at is should this amp (peavey cs-400, 200watts rms per channel) when connected to appropriate speakers be loud enough for vocals during live band rehearsal with two guitarist (crate 120 2x12,,5150 4x12) a bassist(???uses hartke head and two big ass bass speakers) and me the drummer.
Got this amp as part of a package trade deal.
I am pretty sure the speakers that came with it are not a good match wattage wise.,
As it is now I can not hear the speakers over myself singing with amp turned all the way up.
Click to expand...

first ....the wattage of your speakers is simply to tell you have much power they will handle withoput blowing up. It does NOT tell you anything at all about how loud they will get.

second ...... those amps are only 120 watts into 8 ohms so of those are 8 ohm speakers you're not getting 200 watts a side out of them.

third ...... if you're rehearsing using all those large stage-ready guitar amps and bass rig then you're likely practicing way too loud and in a basement like that it can be hard to get the vocals up enough for a drummer to hear over all of that plus his drums regardless of how much power you may have.

lastly ...... that amp would do ok for a monitor rig or something like that. You also could maybe use it in a tri-amped set-up to drive the horns but it's certainly not enough for gigging as the primary PA amp.
 
Isn't there a basic rule that says it takes 10 times the power in watts, to get twice the perceived volume? Obviously there are variables that make this only a vague statement.
 
I play/rehearse with a bunch of guys in a room about 40 x 40 x 15- we do just fine with a little Yamaha StagePas300 that has maybe 300 watts pushing two cabs with a 10 and a horn, each. There certainly must be differences between your guys and mine- I'd say that your guys and you are simply playing too loud in rehearsal. We use pretty dinky gear- at 15 tube watts (tube amps are louder than SS amps) I probably have the loudest amp of the bunch, and I have replaced the gain-stage tube with one that makes it even less loud, and NEVER crank it past about 5 or 6. We have a drummer, too. Our biggest volume problem is sometimes, one or the other of us is too LOUD... when the offending party (often enough, me) turns it down, musical and organizational harmony is restored.

You will either need to get a larger, more powerful PA amp, or smaller gutar and bass amps, and get your drummer (yeah, I know it's you!) to find a way to play with less volume- tricks like mutes, reso rings and moon jel (TIP: artificial fishing worms work just as well, cost far less, and look truly cool! Try the neon-colored ones.) will only get you so far, beyond that you may have to learn to just not hit the skins quite so hard. Not ragging on you (I don't do that anymore,) you understand.

You DO understand, right?:confused:
 
jimmys69 said:
Isn't there a basic rule that says it takes 10 times the power in watts, to get twice the perceived volume? Obviously there are variables that make this only a vague statement.
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yes ..........
 
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