gecko zzed
Grumpy Mod
Why not replace the drummer's sticks with some made out of bamboo or nylon strips. I don't know what they are called, but they are way quieter than conventional sticks. THey might be okay for practice.
Jeff_D
New member
I play in a punk rock band, so "loud drummer" is a fact of life for me. Obviously, since acoustic drums don't have a volume knob, OP would have to crank up the volume on the guitars and PA amps to get into the mix. The problem with doing that in an untreated room (especially a small one) is that the reverberant characteristics of the room turn the sound into total mush and you can't hear shit. So, in my case treating the room seems to control that reverberations in the room to the point that when you DO turn up the volume, you don't get a reverberant pile of mush. My "studio" is a single room half practice space, half recording space- I think you checked out a floor plan a while back- its an L shaped room.
When I first started playing in a band 10 years or so ago, we'd always practice in an empty concrete basement. It was a constant cycle... we can't hear the guitar, so we turn that up... then we can't hear the bass, so turn that up, then you can't hear the vocals, so turn that up, then you can't hear the guitar again- it was progressive to the point where you'd just keep turning up louder and louder each practice. No that we're in a treated room, its MUCH easier to get to levels that are reasonable and have clarity and distinction between all the instruments.
So, no... acoustic treatment wont make the drums quieter, but it will let you turn up everything else and still be able to distinguish the different instruments.
When I first started playing in a band 10 years or so ago, we'd always practice in an empty concrete basement. It was a constant cycle... we can't hear the guitar, so we turn that up... then we can't hear the bass, so turn that up, then you can't hear the vocals, so turn that up, then you can't hear the guitar again- it was progressive to the point where you'd just keep turning up louder and louder each practice. No that we're in a treated room, its MUCH easier to get to levels that are reasonable and have clarity and distinction between all the instruments.
So, no... acoustic treatment wont make the drums quieter, but it will let you turn up everything else and still be able to distinguish the different instruments.
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aznricey
New member
This past 2 practice at the bigger room has been much better. Everybody can hear themselves and the tone might have improved (or it's just in my head). I also invested in some hotrod drum sticks (they are like wooden skewers bunched together) and sometimes we use it for certain songs.
I was not aware that headphone amps are that cheap! I hope you didn't take offence to not using this method. I was hoping to do something more applicable to "live music" so that we will know what to do when we're jamming elsewhere!
Anyways since it's a small investment i'd really like to know more! So let me rephrase this concept here:
Guitar1&2 (15watt amp hooked into mixer using the headphone jack at the back of amp?)we wear the headphones of course
Drum - Just wearing the headphones or do I require a mic too? Shared with the vocal?
Vocal - Head phone and mic,mic hooked to mixer
Finally, the hedphone amp will be hooked to the output of the mixer?
This is sort of my personal story, may not be of your interest but i'd really like to share(it's recording related anyways lol). I'm not the leader and there are a lot of things where I'd rather not say when it comes to telling the band what to do. I've met with many different people that are interested in recording and jamming. Those who're actually musically gifted, those who are all talks, those who doesn't like contributing and expects me to do all the dirty work... THIS band, is really different. We may be a mix of people that knows a little bit here and there, but we are dedicated to expanding song list. In fact, I think our leader is a bit over aggresive on getting our band out there to perform and sometimes misses out all the little things... That includes getting good gears, taking the time to plan a good song selection, setting up, sometimes even being in tune
But anyways their dedication really moved me and I really want to do something for the band. =) That's all I've got to say.
EDIT: Hi I have one more question about putting the guitar into the mixer. My rig set up consist of a multi effects unit hooked into an amp. Do I hook the amp into the mixer through the "phone" output? I was told that it is too hot for the mixer to handle.
< Here is how it would look like
According to Yorkville PA official site
How do I know if my amp has a line in or a headphone or speaker jack? My amp says LINE/PHONE in it, not sure about my friend's amp.
I was not aware that headphone amps are that cheap! I hope you didn't take offence to not using this method. I was hoping to do something more applicable to "live music" so that we will know what to do when we're jamming elsewhere!
Anyways since it's a small investment i'd really like to know more! So let me rephrase this concept here:
Guitar1&2 (15watt amp hooked into mixer using the headphone jack at the back of amp?)we wear the headphones of course
Drum - Just wearing the headphones or do I require a mic too? Shared with the vocal?
Vocal - Head phone and mic,mic hooked to mixer
Finally, the hedphone amp will be hooked to the output of the mixer?
This is sort of my personal story, may not be of your interest but i'd really like to share(it's recording related anyways lol). I'm not the leader and there are a lot of things where I'd rather not say when it comes to telling the band what to do. I've met with many different people that are interested in recording and jamming. Those who're actually musically gifted, those who are all talks, those who doesn't like contributing and expects me to do all the dirty work... THIS band, is really different. We may be a mix of people that knows a little bit here and there, but we are dedicated to expanding song list. In fact, I think our leader is a bit over aggresive on getting our band out there to perform and sometimes misses out all the little things... That includes getting good gears, taking the time to plan a good song selection, setting up, sometimes even being in tune
But anyways their dedication really moved me and I really want to do something for the band. =) That's all I've got to say.EDIT: Hi I have one more question about putting the guitar into the mixer. My rig set up consist of a multi effects unit hooked into an amp. Do I hook the amp into the mixer through the "phone" output? I was told that it is too hot for the mixer to handle.
According to Yorkville PA official site
How do I know if my amp has a line in or a headphone or speaker jack? My amp says LINE/PHONE in it, not sure about my friend's amp.
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R
RAMI
Guest
I play in 2 hard rock cover bands. I'm the drummer. Both bands practice at a volume that allows us to sing with no mics and still hear the vocals. Occasionally, we'll rent a practice room with P.A., etc and crank it out. But, for rehearsing, your drummer should be able to relax and not wack the hell out of his drums so much.
Q
quickspider15
New member
RICK FITZPATRICK
New member
ummmmm, handle feedback well???? WTF are you talking about? Feedback......in a studio??? I think you're in the wrong forum.
Q
quickspider15
New member
The Eurolive F1220A is a monitor which has a feedback filter built in. Instead of trying to create a new post (a no no for newbies), I searched for a thread with someone who already had the unit. Sorry if that upset you.
RICK FITZPATRICK
New member
On the contrary. I just couldn't figure out why someone would ask about monitors with feedback control on a STUDIO building forum...as in...who needs feedback control in a STUDIO????? Other than that, I'd hardly describe my reply as being "upset". Just bewilderment.
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aznricey
New member
Found these on Kijiji. Was wondering if these would help with a small studio for recording?
RICK FITZPATRICK
New member
Those are office dividers. Usually lined with a thin layer of rigid fiberglass, or other absorption material over some type of panel. Yes, they can be used as GOBO's for semi isolation of amps, drums or whatever. Not high enough for standing vocalist's though. But yea, they can be useful to a degree.
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aznricey
New member
Yeah I gave him a call just now and he said that they are cloth on the outside and cardboard materials on the inside.
I'm not sure how i'm going to use them though, as you can see on my first page the drums could get quite high and i'm not sure how i'm supposed to put these up on the wall. I'm supposed to call him in a few hours again to confirm.
Any advice and ideas would be greatly appreciated! Thanks so much
I'm not sure how i'm going to use them though, as you can see on my first page the drums could get quite high and i'm not sure how i'm supposed to put these up on the wall. I'm supposed to call him in a few hours again to confirm.
Any advice and ideas would be greatly appreciated! Thanks so much
RICK FITZPATRICK
New member
If they don't have any absorption material, don't bother. And about hanging them...you don't. Gobo's are free standing. For wall mounted absorption, it needs to be minimum 2" thick rigid fiberglass. Thin stuff like what is NORMALLY on the face of office dividers do very little for absorption. And if it don't have any at all, and is only made of cardboard, personally, I'd pass on them.
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aznricey
New member
I've declined the seller since then. Today I tried out a rode NT1A rental condenser mic and found that the room has A LOT of funny acoustics going on. There would suddenly be scratchy sounds going into the recording...
I would like to know what the cause of that is (i'll provide clip upon request) and was wondering where I should put absorbers/ panels down in this studio/practice space of mine?
I have the following options:
1: 2” thick [24” x 48”] acoustic panels from a local KIJIJI seller $28 Each
ACOUSTIC PANELS FOR HOME THEATRES - Edmonton Electronics For Sale - Kijiji Edmonton Canada.
Not sure if these acoustic panels functions the same as these wedgies below.
2:Auralex
Wedgies 1'X1'X2
These things go for $110 at my local music store (unsure of the size but see link) and go for $5 at zzound lol that's $105 in difference
Long & McQuade - Auralex Wedgies 1'X1'X2
Auralex Studiofoam Acoustic Wedges, Gray, Single at zZounds
I would like to know what the cause of that is (i'll provide clip upon request) and was wondering where I should put absorbers/ panels down in this studio/practice space of mine?
I have the following options:
1: 2” thick [24” x 48”] acoustic panels from a local KIJIJI seller $28 Each
ACOUSTIC PANELS FOR HOME THEATRES - Edmonton Electronics For Sale - Kijiji Edmonton Canada.
Not sure if these acoustic panels functions the same as these wedgies below.
2:Auralex
These things go for $110 at my local music store (unsure of the size but see link) and go for $5 at zzound lol that's $105 in difference
Long & McQuade - Auralex Wedgies 1'X1'X2
Auralex Studiofoam Acoustic Wedges, Gray, Single at zZounds
Jeff_D
New member
I've declined the seller since then. Today I tried out a rode NT1A rental condenser mic and found that the room has A LOT of funny acoustics going on. There would suddenly be scratchy sounds going into the recording...
I would like to know what the cause of that is (i'll provide clip upon request) and was wondering where I should put absorbers/ panels down in this studio/practice space of mine?
I have the following options:
1: 2” thick [24” x 48”] acoustic panels from a local KIJIJI seller $28 Each
ACOUSTIC PANELS FOR HOME THEATRES - Edmonton Electronics For Sale - Kijiji Edmonton Canada.
Not sure if these acoustic panels functions the same as these wedgies below.
2:AuralexWedgies 1'X1'X2
These things go for $110 at my local music store (unsure of the size but see link) and go for $5 at zzound lol that's $105 in difference
Long & McQuade - Auralex Wedgies 1'X1'X2
Auralex Studiofoam Acoustic Wedges, Gray, Single at zZounds
Its hard to tell what the first material is, but it *looks* like a rigid fiberglass or rockwool panel with a fabric cover. If thats the case, this will be far superior to the foam. Do some reading around here on DIY panels and bass traps. What you'll find is that rigid fiberglass has much better absorptive properties than any of the foam products, especially for the problems you're likely to encounter in a small room in your house. In a lot of cases small rooms actually get worse with the addition of foam. The only problem is, you'd get much better performance from a 4" thick panel as opposed to the 2" in the first link.
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aznricey
New member
Again I really appreciate all the help. Here is the reply from the seller:
"The panels are constructed using fiberglass insulation and a fabric cover. We manufacture the panels for commercial projects and as we have stock fabric and some stock panels we are able to offer a special price for residential. There are one inch panels for an NRC of 70% and 2" for an NRC of 100%. The panels are designed to reduce reverberation within the room."
Now I really don't know where I would place these to maximize both quality and use of space. I see some people place it in like a wave on the walls. How would that work? Any suggestions would be great. I can provide more information about my room if needed.
"The panels are constructed using fiberglass insulation and a fabric cover. We manufacture the panels for commercial projects and as we have stock fabric and some stock panels we are able to offer a special price for residential. There are one inch panels for an NRC of 70% and 2" for an NRC of 100%. The panels are designed to reduce reverberation within the room."
Now I really don't know where I would place these to maximize both quality and use of space. I see some people place it in like a wave on the walls. How would that work? Any suggestions would be great. I can provide more information about my room if needed.
RICK FITZPATRICK
New member
At $28, I doubt if it's made with rigid fiberglass. Hell, you can't buy the plain product for that cheap. I'll have to do some research on them..but my guess is..well, it's something else.
Is that for the OFFICE partitions or the other panels? If it IS the office panels and they are made of 2", then heck, they might suffice for the price just for the rigid fiberglass
Although, here is the bottom line. ALL small rooms suffer from Low Frequency modal anomolies, simply because the room dimensions do not allow even distribution of room modes. This manifests itself in LF build up, which the only solution is by way of BASS TRAPS. Since low frequencies terminate in the CORNERS of the room, this is the place where you have to absorb them. Either by placing 4" thick 2'x4' panels diagonally across the corners, floor to ceiling, or by cutting and stacking panels, floor to ceiling. These are called SUPERCHUNKS. There are tons of threads here regarding Superchunks. I would suggest biting the bullet and researching these, and doing your self a favor, and simply do it. Not easy. Not cheap. But they WORK..PERIOD.
The 1" and 2" panels work for broadband absorption, at early reflection points..ie...front side walls and ceiling in a Control room, or randomly spaced around a live room. However, they do nothing for the main culprit of small room acoustics ...ie..LOW FREQUENCIES.
Here is all you need to know to begin your journey on treating your room correctly.
Read the one on Superchunks and you will discover the truth.
Acoustics Forum • View topic - Studiotips SuperChunk
So, I leave it at that. Good luck.
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aznricey
New member
No the acoustic panels I mentioned are these once (http://img1.classistatic.com/cps/kj/110412/721r1/2524bdn_19.jpeg) And here is what the seller said about why the price is cheaper and what the materials are made of
This seller also asked me a number of things. And i thought i'd share them with you all as well!! And second thing is, I have gotten an approval from my parents to use the outside space as long as I keep all my amps and stuff nice and neat.
Here are the videos of how the rooms ACTUALLY look like.
Outside Space (pending use!) VIDEO HERE ;
OUTSIDE SPACE
My Small Room YouTube - VIDEO HERE;
SMALL ROOM DIAGRAM
This seller also asked me a number of things. And i thought i'd share them with you all as well!! And second thing is, I have gotten an approval from my parents to use the outside space as long as I keep all my amps and stuff nice and neat.
Here are the videos of how the rooms ACTUALLY look like.
Outside Space (pending use!
) VIDEO HERE ;OUTSIDE SPACE
My Small Room YouTube - VIDEO HERE;
SMALL ROOM DIAGRAM
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aznricey
New member
Anyone? Sorry this post is getting so long. But i've put in a lot of effort in the diagram and videos. Would love to receive some suggestions.
Also here is the vid for the larger space : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vrdp_NN4l7I
Thanks in advance
Also here is the vid for the larger space : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vrdp_NN4l7I
Thanks in advance
RICK FITZPATRICK
New member
I would. But your diagram leaves a lot to be desired...like correct dimensions.
Here is BOTH your diagrams. The bottom wall on the big diagram is labled 168". The long wall on the small diagram also says 168". According to the large diagram..that is impossible as it shows the small room relative to the big room...and there still is a small hallway width to figure into the 168".
So what gives?Please revise your diagram to reflect reality..and provide ALL dimensions. Then I can help you.
fitZ
Attachments
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aznricey
New member
Hey FitZ you are absolutely right! I actually never really realized the basement looks like that until I looked into the dimensions!! Lets just say... the dimensions are correct and that my diagram is worse than "not drawn to scale"
I would gladly draw another one (and attempt to make it better
) but I think the video might do more justice YouTube - MVI_5724.AVI
It's getting really late here so i'm going to bed real soon. But Im possibly meeting with the kijiji seller that sells the acoustic panels. I would like to know what to look for when the person shows me what they've got tomorrow.
I have read the article you sent me, but I stil can't find what it means by x% NRC fiber glass. Also, how do I know these "fiberglass insulation" as she puts it are the rigid fiberglass you guys are talking about? Assuming they use regular fiberglass insulation (like the owen cornings R20 15X47 I use at home... would that be sufficient?)
Thanks again I will try to update the diagram if I could tomorrow.
I would gladly draw another one (and attempt to make it better
) but I think the video might do more justice YouTube - MVI_5724.AVIIt's getting really late here so i'm going to bed real soon. But Im possibly meeting with the kijiji seller that sells the acoustic panels. I would like to know what to look for when the person shows me what they've got tomorrow.
I have read the article you sent me, but I stil can't find what it means by x% NRC fiber glass. Also, how do I know these "fiberglass insulation" as she puts it are the rigid fiberglass you guys are talking about? Assuming they use regular fiberglass insulation (like the owen cornings R20 15X47 I use at home... would that be sufficient?)
Thanks again
I will try to update the diagram if I could tomorrow.
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