Investiment recomendations to enhance drum recording

  • Thread starter Thread starter vcneves
  • Start date Start date
RAMI said:
...just about anything on the walls will change something.
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We had Hustler centerfold pinups on the walls of our rehearsal/studio space back in the day.
They changed the expression on anyone's face who came by to visit. :D

Especially the new girls who came to hang with the band for the first time. :eek:

What can I say...we were pigs...like most guys in their early twenties. ;)
 
I am going to post something here as soon as I go get all these damn egg crates off my wall
 
c7sus said:
Maybe the guy believes in creationism and that the earth is flat too. Seems like placebo effect is playing into this too.

"Gawd created the earth and heavens in six days and on the seventh he verily soundproofed my room with cardboard and improved my humble drum recordings with egg crates amen."

But physics isn't on his side by any means. If you would like to expand upon the use of cardboard for SOUNDPROOFING applications I would love to see that dissertation.
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Well, many people believe in a creator God. I do myself. And parts of the earth are flat. How else do you play a good game of football ? ;)
But they're kind of irrelevancies that we could kick back to and fro and never get anywhere.
Rami is a fearless and upfront agitator for treating drum tracking and mixing spaces and over a period of time, only a fish called Wanda would dismiss out of hand that here is a matter that may need looking into, especially if someone posts that they are having sonic problems and then someone else says that certain treatments may well be the answer. But calling people names is hardly going to win someone round to your view. The initial points you made were good ones. With a little patience you would have seen that the OP was already starting to consider what others, including yourself, had said. Sure, they would keep asking "but are you sure my cardboard isn't doing any good ?". And the conversation would naturally kick back and forth which would then give a number of people the space to explain exactly why they felt the OP's ideas and solutions weren't the ticket. Then the OP would have more stuff to take away and consider, which is surely what you want if you think your solution is the right one.
 
Ohh try flipping the phase on one of your overheads. Or even better, move the mics further apart. The actual drums don't sound all that bad.
 
m.g. eddie said:
Would you be able to post a pic of your drum kit mic'ed up?
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Not now, but I could set up everything next weekend and take a photo. Please, take a look at description I would provide bellow and tell me if you can picture the scenario

squibble94 said:
Ohh try flipping the phase on one of your overheads. Or even better, move the mics further apart. The actual drums don't sound all that bad.
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I guess my mixer doesn't have the change phase feature. Would I need a "switch phase adapter" or are there other ways of doing it? I can definitely try to move them futher apart, but then overhead mics would be in the edge of my cymbals, right?

leddy said:
How many mics did you use? Where were they placed?
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8 in total. I'll try to describe their positions here:

1) Bass Drum - Beta52 half away from front-head hole which is located in the center
2) Snare - sm57 two fingers above and inside the rim and pointed to the center of the snare
3) Rack tom - I guess for this recording I've used 1 mic for two rack toms which I put in the middle of them, but today I would use only one rack tom in the kit with beta57 about 10cm above/over and pointed to the center
4) Floor tom - similar to rack tom, sm58 about 10cm above/over and pointed to the center
5) overhead on the right - behringer c2 around 50 cm above crash cymbal, pointed down, off-centered (I would say in the middle of the way) in direction of hi-hat
6) overhead on the left - behringer c2 around 50 cm above crash cymbal, pointed down, off-centered (I would say in the middle of the way) in direction of ride cymbal. Try my best to put in paralel with overhead on the right
7 and 8) room mics - 2x behringer c1: one in the left, other in the right, in front of drum kit. Imagine like an equilateral triangle between the drummer and both mics distant something around 2-2.5m from each other

If not clear, please, feel free to ask
 
vcneves said:
I guess my mixer doesn't have the change phase feature. Would I need a "switch phase adapter" or are there other ways of doing it? I can definitely try to move them futher apart, but then overhead mics would be in the edge of my cymbals, right?
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Alrighty buddy. Time for some reading and research. Check out some different overhead techniques: Recorderman, XY, coincident pair, Glyn Johns Method, Spaced Pair, etc. I think this is where your problem is lying. Don't go and buy new equipment just yet.

Do you record every separate track to a DAW, or do you just use a mixer and get the stereo sum of all of the mics?
 
squibble94 said:
Alrighty buddy. Time for some reading and research. Check out some different overhead techniques: Recorderman, XY, coincident pair, Glyn Johns Method, Spaced Pair, etc. I think this is where your problem is lying. Don't go and buy new equipment just yet.
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I agree. Obviously, I can't be sure without being there. But my guess is that you're getting phase cancellation from your overheads not being properly placed/aligned. You can't just throw overheads up there and hope for the best. Read this thread: https://homerecording.com/bbs/equip...regs-general-guide-rock-drums-newbies-273077/

Also, since you're close micing toms and snare, you might be getting phase cancellation from that too.
 
vcneves said:
Not now, but I could set up everything next weekend and take a photo. Please, take a look at description I would provide bellow and tell me if you can picture the scenario



I guess my mixer doesn't have the change phase feature. Would I need a "switch phase adapter" or are there other ways of doing it? I can definitely try to move them futher apart, but then overhead mics would be in the edge of my cymbals, right?


8 in total. I'll try to describe their positions here:

1) Bass Drum - Beta52 half away from front-head hole which is located in the center
2) Snare - sm57 two fingers above and inside the rim and pointed to the center of the snare
3) Rack tom - I guess for this recording I've used 1 mic for two rack toms which I put in the middle of them, but today I would use only one rack tom in the kit with beta57 about 10cm above/over and pointed to the center
4) Floor tom - similar to rack tom, sm58 about 10cm above/over and pointed to the center
5) overhead on the right - behringer c2 around 50 cm above crash cymbal, pointed down, off-centered (I would say in the middle of the way) in direction of hi-hat
6) overhead on the left - behringer c2 around 50 cm above crash cymbal, pointed down, off-centered (I would say in the middle of the way) in direction of ride cymbal. Try my best to put in paralel with overhead on the right
7 and 8) room mics - 2x behringer c1: one in the left, other in the right, in front of drum kit. Imagine like an equilateral triangle between the drummer and both mics distant something around 2-2.5m from each other

If not clear, please, feel free to ask
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I'll bet the main problem is between your overheads and your room mics. You essentially have four mics a few feet apart picking up the same information in what sounds like an under-treated room (not including the close mics on each drum). That's a recipe for phase hell.

Start over with Squibble's advice of using a two-mic method and getting it right. If you add any close mics, keep them isolated well. If you must use room mics, they need to be in the reverberant field. Sounds like yours are too close in the recording you posted. Keep them far away, maybe even point them away from the kit, put them in the next room, hallway, etc. You are only using them to pick up reverb.
 
leddy said:
I'll bet the main problem is between your overheads and your room mics. You essentially have four mics a few feet apart picking up the same information in what sounds like an under-treated room (not including the close mics on each drum). That's a recipe for phase hell.

Start over with Squibble's advice of using a two-mic method and getting it right. If you add any close mics, keep them isolated well. If you must use room mics, they need to be in the reverberant field. Sounds like yours are too close in the recording you posted. Keep them far away, maybe even point them away from the kit, put them in the next room, hallway, etc. You are only using them to pick up reverb.
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Also great advice. I forgot all about the fact that there are room mics thrown into the mix in this case.

I'm just repeating what has already been said, so I'm not trying to take credit for any of the great advice already mentioned by others. But it's worth repeating: Forget everything else for now and just mic your kik, and a pair of overheads. Then, add your snare mic. Once you get a decent sound from those 4 mics, you can either A) Leave it as is, or 2) Add your tom mics and see if it helps. Then, and only then, would I even think about "room mics". To be honest, with the room you're dealing with, I think room mics will do more harn than good.
 
RAMI said:
To be honest, with the room you're dealing with, I think room mics will do more harn than good.
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^^^^ Room mics in a less then good room can destroy any drum tone. Mute them. See what you have. Better yet, mute everything and start with one mic at a time until you find what is causing the phase issues.
 
You will find that when you bring up the fader on a mic that is out of phase, the low end will seem to fall out. More is actually being cancelled out, but that is the most obvious side effect IMO.
 
squibble94 said:
Do you record every separate track to a DAW, or do you just use a mixer and get the stereo sum of all of the mics?
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Generally I record tracks separately to a DAW which comes without any EQ from the mixer itself
 
Thanks Guys! Now I felt my original goal has been accomplished. It seems I have a lot of readings and experiments to make for the following weeks. I really appreciate your advices and promise to post new samples based on them later (it may take a few weeks). Cheers
 
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