HOT DOG FINGERS(!) so I need a NUT REPLACMENT (haha)

  • Thread starter Thread starter Tom Overthere
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Tom Overthere

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z42nut.jpg


Actually I have normal hands with normal fingers, but the finger tips are just too BIG for playing near the nut of the guitar I just bought online. See photo below.

It's a Cort Z42, a "value priced" electric guitar with solid mahogany body and maple neck. As you can see, the nut is plastic and is barely retaining that hi-E string (see yellow arrow). I'd like to replace the nut with one that would provide more E-to-E string space.

I realize there's not much distance from the E strings to the fret ends, but I want to try spreading the strings out as much as possible. I'm not a "thrasher" - especially not when playing near the nut - so I hope moving the E strings a bit closer to the neck edges won't cause problems.

The guitar is based on the Gibson Les Paul. The neck is 24-3/4" scale, 12" radius with 1-3/8" string spacing. I would like to get as close to a 1-1/2" string spacing as I can.

I'LL NEED TO PURCHASE A PRE-SLOTTED NUT.
Is there a nut for some other guitar model that will work on a Gibson-style neck, AND give me string-space of around 1-1/2"? Of course, I could easily reduce the length of an overly-long replacement nut if need be.

Thanks,
Tom
 
Changing the nut won't solve your problem, although that one does look trashed. You'll just have to adjust your playing technique to accomodate the smaller neck. Also adjusting the guitar strap for playability rather than how it looks in the mirror is imperative.
 
Nothing short of a hunger strike is going to keep my fingers from buzzing/muting adjacent strings. :D And I'm already slim.

The E-to-E string spacing is 1-3/8" now. It may be unorthodox, but I think I can get away using a 1-7/16" spacing. It's only 1/16" bigger but that can make a difference in playability, and it'll match the acoustic guitar I've been playing forever.

I'm trying to figure out which pre-slotted Graph Tech Black Tusq nut will work.

Here's a diagram of what I have now.

I'm no luthier, but I am mechanically inclined. Current nut is 1/4" at its base and 3/16" at it's top. It appear to me that all the Graph Tech nuts that provide 1-7/16" string spacing are 3/16" wide(thick) and I need 1/4"... Is there any problem with gluing in a narrow 3/16" nut (other than it leaving a visual gap between nut and truss rod cover)?

All advice / suggestions are welcome.
 
It's not that bad looking. That's the way Gibson-type nuts are. What is often done is dress the nut down until just 1/2 of the string is sitting proud of the nut.
If you want to try a 1.4375" spacing, try Product #: PT-6010-00 from that Graph Tech page. PT-6116-00 could also work.
 
ranjam said:
It's not that bad looking. That's the way Gibson-type nuts are. What is often done is dress the nut down until just 1/2 of the string is sitting proud of the nut.
Click to expand...
I think thad would look good, but see the yellow arrow pointing to the slot for the Hi-E string. If I dress down the top of the nut, I think that string will pop out of it's slot. I don't undrestand why Cort designed the peg head with the HI-E tuner so far off to the side like that...seems to put extra strain on the nut and the sting.


ranjam said:
If you want to try a 1.4375" spacing, try Product #: PT-6010-00 from that Graph Tech page. PT-6116-00 could also work.
Click to expand...
Thanks for the suggestions. I considered them myself BUT both are only 3/16" THICK, and my existing nut is 1/4" (4/16"). Will going to a thinner (front to back) nut cause problems?

GT needs to correct the information on their page (rows are out of order, etc), but it's clear that the PT-6010-00 is slightly thicker and taller. The website says it's easy to shape with sandpaper, so I think the bigger one is the right choice. But the slightly smaller one on the right has a slightly wider string space. :(

There's no information about fret board radius. I'll email Graphic Tech and ask about the 12" radius that I need. Thanks for pointing these two out.

'Looks like admin "deactivated" the image file that was here.
For the record, no copyrights were harmed in the making of this post.
 
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I am not a luthier, and I have never played one on television. But I do pick their brains a lot, under the guise of being a better informed customer. I always do the minor stuff myself, and have a real tech bail me out on the tough jobs. I have some experience changing a nut, but certainly not enough to say I know what I am talking about 100% of the time. With that out of the way.........
On a Gibson-type neck, the nut 'ends' where the nut ends, but has a lot more superfluous material. On a Strat, there is that 1/8" cutout with some fingerboard material on both sides. So it's more important to have a good fitting nut here. But on a Gibson, if the nut is up snug against the fingerboard, you should be OK with a hairline of open wood between the nut and the tuning pegs (where the peghead veneer doesn't cover up). It may not look pretty, but I can't see how it would affect anything. And really, I was always told (and it makes perfect sense) that the string slot is cut 'downward' in the nut, so only the front edge makes contact with the string. If the cut is too flat, that's where rubbing and binding make trouble for you tuning.
For the radius, you can always cut certain slots a little deeper to accommodate the radius. Yes, you need expensive nut files, but they'll last a lifetime.
That's all I know. You have to have the front edge square, and many Gibson guitars had an angle to the bottom edge of the nut. So check that all over carefully, and if you can swing it, a few tools will come in handy. Pay for the tools by doing a few jobs for friends really cheap compared to a regular guitar tech.
 
ranjam has it basically right ..... and it is important to have those slots cut downward a little toward the headstock so the string makes a clean 'break' at the fretboard.

You can definitely change a nut yourself.
One potential problem I see, sometimes when you get the E strings too close to the edge ... you have trouble with them slipping off the side of the neck.
So save your old nut in case you need to go back.
 
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ranjam & LTB ==

Thanks for the detailed information. Looks like admin must have disabled my image file above (I guess because it depicted information on Graph Tech's webpage...?) Anyway, based on ranjam's suggestions yesterday I submitted an email inquiry to Graph Tech. Hopefully someone in their Sales dept will sort me out.

Unless I hear different, I'll try whichever of the 1-7/16" E-to-E string space nuts they recommend...and I WILL hold onto the existing 1-3/8" SS nut, for sure. Thanks
 
I should have been more specific. I was referring to my post #5.

I made a screen capture of the two GT nuts and their (slightly garbled) specs from the GT web page. Maybe HRc admin is sensative to any posted image of potentially copyrightable information...

In this case, I would think GT saw it as a welcome advertisement.

Whatever :confused:
 
AndyDenyer said:
That's why you don't buy guitars online.
Click to expand...
Interesting. Check out the MUSIC123 ad appearing at the bottom of this page (at the moment) and throughout this site. Every one of them is selling guitars online.

I needed an excellent deal. I found it, and I think I can make it suit my needs (for now) for a further investment of $12. If so, I'm way ahead of the game.

FWIW, I paid $168 delivered for the Cort Z42 I bought. I played comparable guitars by Ibanez and ESP-LTD locally. The Ibanez was $299 plus tax and the LTD was $349 plus tax. As far as playability and sound, the Cort is equal to the other two, in my estimation, and all three had the same narrow nut (Ibanez nut might have been even smaller and there was no coil split feature). THE MATH:

Cort: $168 + $12 nut = $180

Ibanez $299 + $21 tax + $12 nut = $332 (savings of $152, almost the cost of the Z42)

ESP-LTD $349 + $24 tax + $12 nut = $385 (savings of $195, more than the cost of the Z42)

Now having argued so hard for the Z42, I must admit that I am having a devil of a time keeping it in tune. It's said to have decent tuners, so I'm not sure what to think. The strings are D'Addario XLT Light Regular 10s and are wound properly on the tuners. ANYBODY HAVE ADVICE / SUGGESTIONS?
 
going out of tune is NOT related to the tuners.
Better tuners help you GET in tune better by being smoother or have a higher ratio. But a tuner is a worm gear and cannot slip unless it's so worn it jumps a tooth.

There's lots of threads about tuning and, in fact .....
here's a response to someone else about a similar issue.....
First step .... check your intonation and make sure it's correct ..... after that:

Tuners won't be the cause ...... the primary difference between tuners is that some give you more precise control while tuning but once it's in tune, they don't slip ..... that's a common myth but not true.
It's also not going to have anything to do with your neck being straight or not ..... that's a matter of playbility. It wouldn't make your string GO out of tune while playing.

So it's gonna be at places where a string can either hang up or places that can flex the string.

A spot on a nut or bridge where the string can 'catch' rather than sliding smoothly over it is gonna be the most likely thing. If you bend a string, it slides over the nut
(sometimes the bridge saddle) and if it doesn't slide back all the way because it's caught, then all of a sudden it's out of tune.
Some lube (nutsauce) on each can help with that.

Also, maybe not have the stop tailpiece down all the way ...... that puts more downforce on the bridge and helps make the string get caught.

I've seen saddles on Les Pauls that can be kinda loose so the saddles can move back and forth in the bridge making the strings go out of tune .... check for that.

Double check your winding procedure ...... I have seen people think they did it the best way but in fact, did not.

Sometimes guitars with a mahogany neck can have a neck that's fairly flexible. With those necks it's VERY easy to be pulling back or pushing forward on the neck slightly without realizing it and flex the neck enough to knock it out of tune.
That's more common than most people think and it can be a very difficult to tell you're doing it because on some necks it doesn't take much.

Good luck.
 
Wow, LT. That's a tremendous amount of useful information. I truly appreciate the depth and detail. I read through it once and am very encouraged. I do not want the expense of replacing the tuners, so this is welcome news. I'll re-read and study your comments more when I can shake all these elligators off me arse.

One of the features I really like about this guitar is the simple string-through design. No trem and not even a stop plate behind the bridge = good tone and sustain. BUT...I've heard of instances where one of the through-body tubes/grommets might be a little tight, causing a string's ball end to hang in the tube before it seats properly. Tonight I'll try loosening all strings enough to yank em upward where they exit the body. Hopefully that'll ensure that all ball ends are seated properly. It'll also give me a chance to check for looseness in the saddles/bridge, per your comments.

through.jpg


I know the intonation is not set properly for at least half the strings, just by listening to 12th fret tone vs. harmonic. BUT I haven't yet researched which direction to move the saddle to correct (or at least improve) it. Can you offer a brief explanation?

At fret 12, assume the pitch of the fretted note is higher than the harmonic tone.
Do I move the saddle toward the neck, or away from the neck?

Thanks, LT

P.S. Surprising to learn about how easy it is to flex mahogany necks(!) This one is maple, so I'm hoping it fares better. One disconcerting note: there's a glue joint on a long diagonal (as viewed from the side of the neck) about 3/4 of the way up the neck (nearer the head stock). It's a good, clean perfectly-mated joint and my woodworking experience teaches that a correct glue joint is stronger than the surrounding wood. It just makes me wonder a bit...but hey, this is an inexpensive guitar, so no surprise.
 
for your example in bold you would move the saddle AWAY from the neck
 
I Googled my way to this:

INTONATION (FINE TUNING)

Set the pickup selector switch in the middle position, and turn the volume and tone controls to their maximum settings.

Check tuning.

Check each string at the 12th fret, harmonic verses the fretted note
(make sure you are depressing the string evenly to the fret, not the fingerboard).

If the fretted note is sharp compared to the harmonic tone, lengthen the string by adjusting the saddle back.
If the fretted note is flat compared to the harmonic tone, shorten the string by moving the saddle forward.

Remember, guitars are tempered instruments! Re-tune, play and make further adjustments as needed.


Too many years of playing acoustically. Having just a stationary carved saddle means no need to learn about intonation adjustments.


Right after I posted this I found your reply, LT. Sorry to spin your wheels. Thanks
 
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Loose Nuts

LT BOB ==
I receceived the replacement nut, a Graph Tech Black Tusq PT-6116-00 with 1.435" (1-7/16") E-to-E string spacingto replace the original plastic nut having 1.375" (1-3/8") string spacing. I'm pretty sure it'll work too; my acoustic guitar neck/nut are the same width as this electric guitar's, and the acoustic string spacing is the wider 1.435. Fingers crossed.

I thought you might find this interesting. Recall that I was having a terrible time keeping this guitar in tune.

While analyzing/measuring the existing nut prior to removal (so I know how to recreate it) I noticed that four of the six nuts that hold the tuners in place were LOOSE, two of them very loose. I tightened them up two days ago, tuned the guitar and have played it as usual. It's still in tune(!) These nuts on the face of the headstock appear to be the only means attaching the tuner to the guitar (no small screws from behind) so no wonder the strings couldn't hold tune.

The guitar came with a tag indicating which Indonesian was responsible for each step of production. Somebody needs retraining, or better yet, give that job to an American :D
 

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Tom Overthere said:
LT BOB ==
I receceived the replacement nut, a Graph Tech Black Tusq PT-6116-00 with 1.435" (1-7/16") E-to-E string spacingto replace the original plastic nut having 1.375" (1-3/8") string spacing. I'm pretty sure it'll work too; my acoustic guitar neck/nut are the same width as this electric guitar's, and the acoustic string spacing is the wider 1.435. Fingers crossed.

I thought you might find this interesting. Recall that I was having a terrible time keeping this guitar in tune.

While analyzing/measuring the existing nut prior to removal (so I know how to recreate it) I noticed that four of the six nuts that hold the tuners in place were LOOSE, two of them very loose. I tightened them up two days ago, tuned the guitar and have played it as usual. It's still in tune(!) These nuts on the face of the headstock appear to be the only means attaching the tuner to the guitar (no small screws from behind) so no wonder the strings couldn't hold tune.

The guitar came with a tag indicating which Indonesian was responsible for each step of production. Somebody needs retraining, or better yet, give that job to an American :D
Click to expand...
yeah, I have seen that before ...... sorry I didn't suggest it.
Obviously if those tuners are tightened down and can move around, that's gonna be an issue. Glad you found the problem.
 
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