Cheap computer multitracking

[sled]

Hi,

Greetings all.

I'm coming back to recording after a long absence - I'm finding things have moved on a bit - although perhaps not as much as some would have us believe !

I'm dusting off and sorting out all my old analog stuff. I've also got plenty of old computers - yes my room does look like a tech junkyard. What I've never done is put the two together. In this respect I'm a total newbie.

On my portastudio, if I want to record all four tracks at once I just do it. What I seem to be discovering is that with basic computer recording, even if the software does zillions of tracks, I can only actually record one or two at once.

So being realistic, what I'm asking is this; what is the minimum I need to at least monitor the tracks I have already recorded while laying down one or two new ones?

I've priced a few possible solutions. First up at a bargain £25 or so is the Behringer UCA222. This a basic (but they claim reasonable quality) 2in/2out USB D/A converter with headphone monitoring. It comes with a lot of bundled free/shareware including Audacity and something called energyXT2.5. It looks like it could work but even if it won't do the multitracking I should at least be able to record mixdowns for making CD's or MP3's.

Next at £50-£100 is a fancier USB box, something like the Lexicon Alpha/Lamda which will actually says it will record a staggering two tracks at once - I hope it also would at least let me listen to whats already recorded whilst performing this herculanean task, or at least the bundled software will. On most of these boxes it seems to be a cut down Pro Tools or Cubase. Cubase claims 48 tracks, but at two per pass we're going to be here for a long time. The Lexicon Omega says it will do 4 tracks simultaneously (!) but we're up to £150 now.

And what about MIDI ? I need MIDI for my expanders/keys. Should I pay even more for a USB box with MIDI, or will these cut back DAW's drive 'any old' sound card for MIDI whilst playing/recording? Perhaps I should be looking at a good in-computer card, but the trend seems to be moving away from these and I may be using a laptop.

So say if I wanted to records 8 tracks at once? Whats that going to cost? Its not impossible as I like to record in stereo if i can, and with some effects. . .

Also, I've heard there can be some serious latency issues with computer based multitrack - especially I would imagine recording 48 tracks two at a time!

You might see where I'm going with this - I can go out and buy a luvv-er-ley vintage Fostex or Tascam 8 track off eBay in GWO for about £200 and I already have the mixer to drive it. 8 tracks straight down, and no latency issues !

Thats what i mean when I say I'm not convinced things have actually moved on that much !

All your thoughts greatly appreciated.

 

[TimOBrien]

since you're quoting pounds it'll depend on your suppliers in the UK as to whats available (I would definitely go up a step from the Behringer) but you'll want to take a read through this guide of user-tested solutions:
Audio Interfaces and Soundcards

(You'll want to bookmark and read through all of Tweak's Guide)

 

[sled]

Thanks for the pointer Tim.

The site is a mine of information and I'm interested to see confirms some of my fears about computer based multi-tracking.

I might take a punt on the Behringer tho, just for fun and to see what i can get it (and the software) to do.

I have a theory that if you buy a 'basic' or 'cheap' version of any system, it exposes the natural weaknesses of that system, ie the things that are difficult to get to work properly easily. You then know what you need to see fixed in more expensive versions.

If nothing else I should have a cheap 2-track hard disk recorder/CD writer/MP3 maker.

 

[Treeline]

I've had an M-Audio Delta66 setup (PCI card with a small breakout box) for some years and it has been rock solid and dead simple to use. I bought mine used on ebay for about $ 65 US (lucky break as there were few bidders) and am happy with it.

For more tracks, I have a Mackie mixer with a firewire card - fairly expensive - but have not yet used its recording capabilities beyond a few tracks. I use the Delta about every time I walk in the studio.

 

[gecko zzed]

If you want eight tracks at once, look for interfaces that will provide that.

A contemporary interface that can do eight tracks will commonly have:
* midi ins and outs
* full duplex capability (i.e. you can monitor what's recorded while recording new stuff)
* low latency
* phantom power (for condenser mikes)

Most come bundled with software.

 

[Richard King]

Hi,

Greetings all.

I'm coming back to recording after a long absence - I'm finding things have moved on a bit - .

LOL... I can relate. About a year ago I decided that I wanted to be a "recording engineer" when I grow up.... for the second time. I last recorded bands in about 1977 or so, give or take a year. My last recordings were done with a Tascam 80-8 with DBX noise reduction. I'm now starting to get some business recording bands on location (I used to haul the 80-8 and a mixing console in the back of a 1972 orange Datsun 510 station wagon). I now have an 8 space rack with a Presonus Firestudio, a Digimax FS and an ART Digital MPA. If needed, I have a spare Firestudio that will give me a total of 26 channels at one time.

In your situation I would start out with a Firestudio (with 8 mic inputs) or something similar that would give you the ability to expand over time as I have done.

For software, take a serious look at Reaper.

 

[sled]

Thanks folks - I am learning fast here.

I followed up on the 8-port devices - there's seems to be quite a few about but of course they are not that cheap. The Presonus looks very nice but is probably a bit overkill for me - I don't need the mic pre's as I have enough of them on my old analog kit, which luckily I bought in the days when I still had some money. I hadn't thought of firewire tho as mentioned by richard and tree but I guess I shouldn't rule it out as I do have a computer which has it.

So what I really need is as cheap as possible way of getting in at at the line level - with that in mind I did follow up on the M-audio cards and I found they do one called the 1010lt - basically a PC card with a whole load of spaghetti hanging off the back to keep the cost down. 10 in and 10 out and a whole load of digital junk as well - there's even two XLR in's. The best thing is it seems to run on any old banger computer - funnily enough the sort I mostly have - and expansionwise they say you can out up to four cards in the box giving forty channels - way more than I will ever need, but nice to know!

The bundled software is Abelton Lite, which if other posts here are to be believed raises the possibility of having way more channels on the card than the software can actually handle. Still if I wanted my 8 channels right now that's definitely where I'd be heading. It's still about £160-£180 here in the UK, probably more than I want to spend today and course I would have to crank up a computer to put it in.

'Full duplex' is a word I was looking for - thanks gecko. Unfortunately it's very difficult to establish from reading specs. I guess at it's also software dependent. Either way I guess if you can't monitor source and pre-recorded material in real time you ain't multitracking, and if even if you could monitor via another route you could be into latency problems.

Richard, your setup was glamorous compared to mine. I recorded a local blues band here in Manchester, UK in about 1980 with a domestic cassette deck (albeit a fairly good one) and a stereo mike. I think it came out surprisingly well and I made some copies for the band. I probably still have the master somewhere and I could probably play if the oxide hasn't fallen off the tape - I still have the deck it was made on.

Thanks now. . . .