Best Studio Mic for Children (unskilled)

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bobmarker

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Hi there, a little different question than the normal "What mic should I buy" question.

I need some suggestions for a good mic (or two or three?) for recording kids in a studio setting. It's a round table type podcast show by kids for kids (with an adult moderator to keep the show going).

For the most part, the kids are moving around a lot as they range from 4 to 10 years old. The extent of their mic training is "don't touch the mic, table or anything connected to the mic." That's about it. They can't stay close to the mics no matter if you promise them a truck load of candy.

We have some RE20s and PR40s, but these are worthless if you can't be talking right up into them... and with kids, that happens only about 5% of the time.

Any suggestions? I want to stay under $200-300, but cheaper is better. We need 4 of these and the room is well treated, but the mics are going to be within close proximity of each other (around 2-3 feet). All mics are pointing the same direction on the kids side.

There's no singing, just spoken word. The hosts are on RE20s.

Thanks.
 
You are pretty much doomed. If you used any normal mic and they haven't learned to speak loudly, you will mostly get room noise as you try to amplify their whispers. But then there will be one kid who yells really loud, so you need a limiter. You can't use boundary mics because they will pound on the table. If you have four mics in close proximity, you have to actively select the mic closest to each kid, otherwise you will have comb filtering hell.

I would try attaching candy to the PR40s with icing, that is your only hope . . . a bunch of shotguns on booms with a boom operator for each kid would be the pro approach, but it's not cheap . . .
 
I suppose nailing the children to the floor would get their parents a bit narky, wouldn't it?
 
Maybe a cheap headset microphone for each child would do the trick. Even radio shack has some on the cheap side or just google up some other company.
 
I would recommend using lapel mics. If the kids won't stop moving, why not *attach the mic to the kid*?-Richie
 
an omni hanging from the ceiling in the middle of the room at a height they cant reach?
 
Lapel mics would be the pro-ish way, but they're going to be moving and scratching and other things that will get picked up by the mics. Shotgun with boom operator for backup. But with lots of kids and any sort of musical chairs and that gets tricky. An OMNI from the ceiling would probably do wonders if the space was decent. AT4022? But it'd also sound cheap IMO. Not that you'd have much choice. Will this be regular thing with the same kids? Some hope of mic training that route, in time. Otherwise doomed IMO.

I've been to adult conferences where they setup mics in the aisles for questions, and just getting folks / adults to use them was almost pointless. The skilled speakers would repeat the question / answer that the audience person made. In part to clarify that that's what they said, and for the sake of the recording. But it was a technical conference and only a couple of the speakers were skilled speakers in that regard. And then others were stand up comics, the question was, why am I so handsome. I just used my stereo pair of OMNI mics. No problems hearing both questions and answers. But there were plenty of distractions and you'd have to play with the gain in post to hear some questions. Not ideal, but if the alternative is nothing of use?
 
A PZM on a mouse pad would work well, and provide some isolation from table pounding. You can also get a Behringer ECM-8000 omni mic and point it straight down, about 1/16" from the top of the table, to duplicate a PZM.
 
Harvey Gerst said:
A PZM on a mouse pad would work well, and provide some isolation from table pounding. You can also get a Behringer ECM-8000 omni mic and point it straight down, about 1/16" from the top of the table, to duplicate a PZM.
Click to expand...

A pair of ecm8000's suspended from overhead should do the trick. No handling, furniture bumping or mic stand bumping noise this way. They are natural sounding, and will pick up everyone in an even handed manner. And... they are cost effective.

Let us know how it goes. I'm curious about this one.
 
bobmarker said:
Hi there, a little different question than the normal "What mic should I buy" question.

I need some suggestions for a good mic (or two or three?) for recording kids in a studio setting. It's a round table type podcast show by kids for kids (with an adult moderator to keep the show going).

For the most part, the kids are moving around a lot as they range from 4 to 10 years old. The extent of their mic training is "don't touch the mic, table or anything connected to the mic." That's about it. They can't stay close to the mics no matter if you promise them a truck load of candy.

We have some RE20s and PR40s, but these are worthless if you can't be talking right up into them... and with kids, that happens only about 5% of the time.

Any suggestions? I want to stay under $200-300, but cheaper is better. We need 4 of these and the room is well treated, but the mics are going to be within close proximity of each other (around 2-3 feet). All mics are pointing the same direction on the kids side.

There's no singing, just spoken word. The hosts are on RE20s.

Thanks.
Click to expand...

ouch, that's gotta hurt!

I've read the other's responses and the only thing I can come up with is grab some rope and tie 'em down.
But that's me and I probably wouldn't be called back for more business.

Visions of kiddie-chasin' boom-mic handlers all tangled up in cable come to mind. I don't think that will do if
those kids are rambuncious.

I was going to suggest 4 SM57s(or 58s) set up as a pair of XY combos then remembered the moving about.
How big is the room? How big is the table?
Could you suspend the mics from the ceiling?
Do you have some 57s in inventory already?
New they are about $100, used about $50-$70
If not, how about Shure R57 replacement cartridges for $60, tape a hanger or some solid core electrical wire you can bend, to the body, making a shepherd's crook on the other end to hang to ceiling or overhead X room clothes line??.

Perhaps a rental place could supply (reduce costs)

IF I were doing this and had no one to ask, this is probably what I would try and let the chips fall where they may.

I am pretty sure that those Shure SM57s and SM58s are childproof and deliver quality sound.
Afterall they have been used in countless famous recordings as is and are often advertised as
being legendary.

The RE20s are legendary in their own right so it would make sense to me to use the RE20 on the
host, boom or otherwise and the 57/58s on the children.
After you are done, you can let the kids play darts with the Shures. I don't think I would allow them
to throw the EVs, though.
;)

It's too bad you can't tie the kids down and duct tape their mouths so you can hear what the host is trying
to say without much fuss.

Oh well... I hope you find the answers to your situation. Harvey and omtayslick seem to onto something.
 
Tie the children down? Isn't that what they madke gaff tape for?
 
Harvey Gerst said:
A Behringer ECM-8000 omni mic, pointed straight down, about 1/16" from the top of the table, is a boundary mic.
Click to expand...
Harvey,
Is this because the mic is so close to the table that the table is contibuting to the "boundry" effect or something
similar?
 
Harvey Gerst said:
Here's a simple explanation:
AudioScienceMic.pdf
Click to expand...

Thanks for the explanation link.

When sound encounters a hard unyielding surface, that sound is reflected
away from the surface. As a result, a doubling of sound pressure occurs in a zone
right next to that surface. If a microphone is placed within this “Pressure Zone”,
there will be a doubling of acoustic pressure at the diaphragm of the microphone,
which results in a higher output of the microphone. This effectively means that
the microphone then has a higher sensitivity.
Click to expand...

I've noticed this phenomenon of my guitar sounding louder when I stand close to a bare wall or door.
My guess had been that because the sound is being reflected off the wall and towards me and my bad ears.
I can barely hear an acoustic guitar anymore. Anyway, I discovered this phenomenon on my own, some years
ago.

What would be interesting to know is if in the pro recording field if it has ever been an intentional technique
to record a voice from the reflection of a sound source via an apparatus (box, board, glass) etc to modify the tone of that voice
rather than straight into or directly into/towards the mic as is conventionally done. (would seem to me the cheapest way
to add "color" or warmth or ... whatever adjective to the voice.

IF the answer is yes, then I am led to ask how I can make my voice sound the same way I hear my voice. ie bone conduction versus air pressure.

I should ask this in another thread.
Thanks again for the pdf link. :)
 
What was it that Beethoven did? He held a reed in his mouth to the piano so he could hear it through his jaw bone after becoming completely deaf.
 
Ellis Marsalis had his kids stand facing a corner of the room and play a single note over and over for hours so they could "learn" what each note is supposed to sound like.
 
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