Structuring a song in a recording session ..

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yakka66

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Hi Guys!

Im fairly new to recording and realise this question has LOTS of answers, but would love some advice and more info. I usually have a great idea for a song but in a recording sence don't always know how to structure the recording ... Verse by Verse? Instrument by Instrument? all of the above? .... How about rough recordings then going over the top with the polished tone.... id love hear some diffrent ways of doing this...

Much love and many thanks Yakka
 
Hi Guys!

Im fairly new to recording and realise this question has LOTS of answers, but would love some advice and more info. I usually have a great idea for a song but in a recording sence don't always know how to structure the recording ... Verse by Verse? Instrument by Instrument? all of the above? .... How about rough recordings then going over the top with the polished tone.... id love hear some diffrent ways of doing this...

Much love and many thanks Yakka

glad you know that theres no magic formula to this so Ill start :)


I generally work on the busiest part of the song...it normally starts with a few bars of bass, then basic drums (which I expand on later) and I build the melody on that...then I lengthen it to a full song and add to it from there, Im doing mostly dance instrumentals at the moment but even other stuff I produce starts like that...just so I know how it sounds when everythings in full swing and can build up to these points and it seems to be the method that works for me

Lyrics (if any) and filling out the drums is the last things I do
 
That's great! thanks for the reply! Im mainly doing rock and acoustic stuff, i always get lost in a tiny part of the song and then build on that till it sounds great .. then get lost in the rest of the track .. i think im going to start rough and build it up next time! :)
 
What works for me is I build a song based around a particular rhythm pattern from my Zoom Rhythmtrak. I'll select a beat I like and try to come up with a guitar riff or chord sequence to compliment the rhythm. Once I have a drums & guitar thing going, I'll record it, then add a bass track on top of that. Sometimes I get mediocre & predictable results, other times I find the project taking on a life of it's own and a song can get written pretty quickly once the basic framework is laid down. But that's a big part of the fun & challenge - seeing where it takes you.
 
That's great! thanks for the reply! Im mainly doing rock and acoustic stuff, i always get lost in a tiny part of the song and then build on that till it sounds great .. then get lost in the rest of the track .. i think im going to start rough and build it up next time! :)

have you tried being fairly regimented....like writing down how many bars for section and structuring like


intro 4 bars, verse 8 bars, chorus 4 bars...etc etc etc then adhering to it?


I find with dance music we work within a fairly tight constraint of 8 - 16 bar movements, part of speaking to rock musicians is them poking fun saying we play loops..

well when I look/listen at rock, pop, etc I hear the same loops just structured in a different way...other than solos and some vocal parts I dont really hear traditional songs as being that organic either anymore


It may seem a little soulless at first but after a while its second nature...and rather than just being a journey from beginning to end on each song its more compartmentalised...if you get my meaning..I'd say its a good exercise to start with until you get a few under your belt :)


also de-constructing favourite songs can also be a good exercise
 
Yakka,

If you are doing rock music I'm guessing you are coming up with your ideas on guitar first?

If so, here's what I do if this helps at all.

  • Figure out the tempo of the song and set the metronome and record everything to it.
  • Record the rhythm guitar first. If you already know the structure, go at it.
  • If not, record your main riff and listen to it until you come up with your other parts and record each of them.
  • Now listen back and you can start moving / copying things into place until you have the structure of your tune down.
  • Re-record the rhythm guitar playing the whole song now.
  • Listen to it and record the lead guitar or any other little guitar parts, harmonies, octaves, etc.
  • Record Bass
  • Add / Record Drums
  • Record vocals and vocal harmonies.
  • Mix
  • Go get a sandwich
 
It depends on a few things. Such as, are you recording everything yourself, that is, are you playing all the instruments ? How 'complete' is the song that you are about to record ? In what way does it flow from section to section ? If you're walking about can you hum or sing the song all the way through ? If other players are playing on it with you, is there space and freedom to go in unforseen directions ? Or are you definite and prescriptive about how you want the song to go ? Incidentally, I see both the improvisational and the rigid as strengths. Different strengths, either can be lousy and not work. It depends on the song. I have many songs that did not adhere to my original structure but turned out better. If not, I've just redone them. Also there's many that stuck fairly rigidly to the way I conceived it. Also, many occurred in jams where I wasn't thinking about writing a song but listening to the tape after, realized a song could be made. And the hard bit was getting the drums to repeat because if you're not recording or playing live, you may do things in a jam that you might not do otherwise and forget how it was done.
But I digress.
Even when I dealt exclusively in tape I was notorious for adding to songs, usually at the start or end because no way was I going to cut tape, but now I record digitally, I'm even worse ! I may have tracked a song and it's finished but then I get an idea and can add it wherever I like, providing there's no cymbal spill because it would sound artificial for the cymbal to finish so abruptly. But basically, I always know how the song goes before I start to record. I record the basics in one of four formats ~ bass/drums, guitar/drums, guitar/percussion {usually congas, bongos, djembe or some frame drum or skin drum} or bass/percussion. Much of the energy is set when my friends and I do this bit and it's here that unforseen directions may be charted. Once this part is done, there may be a little editing here and there but by and large this is the basis and everything is built on this. However the overdubs happen to fall is how they fall.
On very rare occasions, I may start off with just the acoustic guitar and the drums come in later. It differs from song to song.
What has been said by others is really good stuff and you will get used to it and soon it'll become second nature. It's part of the fun of recording and navigating your way towards a finished creation.
This may yield some answers.
 
Yakka,

If you are doing rock music I'm guessing you are coming up with your ideas on guitar first?

If so, here's what I do if this helps at all.

  • Figure out the tempo of the song and set the metronome and record everything to it.
  • Record the rhythm guitar first. If you already know the structure, go at it.
  • If not, record your main riff and listen to it until you come up with your other parts and record each of them.
  • Now listen back and you can start moving / copying things into place until you have the structure of your tune down.
  • Re-record the rhythm guitar playing the whole song now.
  • Listen to it and record the lead guitar or any other little guitar parts, harmonies, octaves, etc.
  • Record Bass
  • Add / Record Drums
  • Record vocals and vocal harmonies.
  • Mix
  • Go get a sandwich

This is great advice.:cool:

And just to add something about the copying and pasting part: Don't worry about bad edits, pops, mistakes,etc...You're just putting together a scratch track. My scratch tracks are usually a mess, edit-wise, out of tune guitars and all. But, at that point of the process, I'm just trying to put a basic structure together before I erase it all with the real tracks.
 
Last edited:
Yakka,

If you are doing rock music I'm guessing you are coming up with your ideas on guitar first?

If so, here's what I do if this helps at all.

  • Figure out the tempo of the song and set the metronome and record everything to it.
  • Record the rhythm guitar first. If you already know the structure, go at it.
  • If not, record your main riff and listen to it until you come up with your other parts and record each of them.
  • Now listen back and you can start moving / copying things into place until you have the structure of your tune down.
  • Re-record the rhythm guitar playing the whole song now.
  • Listen to it and record the lead guitar or any other little guitar parts, harmonies, octaves, etc.
  • Record Bass
  • Add / Record Drums
  • Record vocals and vocal harmonies.
  • Mix
  • Go get a sandwich

This sounds a lot like my workflow, especially the sandwich.

Except I'll usually work out the structure first and get my drumtrack instead of a metronome to record to. Coming from a drum background, a lot of my songs can get pretty experimental with the drumtracks or at least not very vanilla 2 and 4's and can impact the groove of my song more than any other instrument. I find it very easy to hear everything else once I've got the drum track down.

But just figure out what works for you. Maybe you vibe with the bass better when working out the structure. Maybe metronome + rhythm guitar suits you fine to work out your song structure.
 
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