Brand new project ... needs new ears

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Incredible job, I loved it. The build ups in the arrangement are very well done. It has an emotional feel I thought was very well done also. What Mic-pre did you use for the vocals? Share some of how you made it? Thanks for posting.
 
PDP said:
Incredible job, I loved it. The build ups in the arrangement are very well done. It has an emotional feel I thought was very well done also. What Mic-pre did you use for the vocals? Share some of how you made it? Thanks for posting.
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Glad to share P.

The lead vocal is a Karma K58 mic w/ a GE 5 star tube swap that was recommended to me by my friend Jim Maxon. He bugged me to get this mic, which I did ... but I didn't really like it out of the box ... so he bugged me to get the tube swap, and I thought "what difference is that going to make?"

The answer was "Everything." He now holds a special place in my heart for his insistence on my behalf. It unexpectedly ended a 20 year search for the mic that makes me sound natural. The mic is $300, and the tube mod I found on the net for $35. The tube can cost more than that.

I've two mic pres, a Peavey Stereo Tube (also thanks to Jim, who found it online for me from a guy a couple towns over), and a Trident Celebration channel strip for a transistor model (single channel). I used to chat frequently online w/ the guy who recorded "What if God were one of us?" ... and he was a strong Trident supporter. The local Guitar Center had a demo for sale ... from $1400 down to $250, and I couldn't pass it up.

Tube through tube sounds overly spongy, so for the lead vocals, I run the K58 through the Trident. On the background vox, I layered my son on several tracks through that very setup. At the same time I had another friend of his and mine lay down several tracks through an AT4050 through the Peavey.

The acoustic guitar was recorded via a single MXL603 small condenser. I purchased a stereo set for $175 brand new. It was routed through the Peavey. The mic was positioned about a foot away from the intersection of neck and body, pointed slightly back towards the sound hole.

The electric guitars go into my PodXT ... which is routed through the Peavey in stereo.

The bass guitar is direct into the Trident ... but I enhance it in the mix w/ an Ampeg plug.

The pre-amps go into the computer via a Layla24 ($600), and I use Sonar 8.5PE for my workstation.

I mix through a Pyle 50 watt amp ($50) through Realistic Maximus Sevens ($100) as my primary monitoring source. The Realistic speakers, which I actually already owned ... were recommended to me as a monitoring source by my cousin Mike (who did Fountain of Wayne's "Stacy's Mom has got it going on")

My alternate monitors are my self powered Event 20/20s ... (I don't remember the price), a Sony boom box ... maybe $50? ... and my Toshiba laptop ... just because everyone should know what their mix sounds like through a laptop.

Once it sounds good on the crappy Realistic speakers, though ... it tends to sounds just fine on everything else. The speakers are unforgiving when things are wrong ... and so forces the mixer to make it sound right. The trick with them is the bass balance ... which I rely on the larger Events and my Sennheiser headphones for.

I hope the info helps.

Best,

Kev-
 
I think you did a nice job. My only nit is with the drums. The drums sound a bit too dry. They sound like they were recorded in a small or completely different space compared to the rest of the instruments. The vocals, piano, & guitars sit well together but to me (and this is just my opinion) the drums seem like they are just in a different space. I'd try different reverb on the drums but that's just me.
 
Simman said:
I think you did a nice job. My only nit is with the drums. The drums sound a bit too dry. They sound like they were recorded in a small or completely different space compared to the rest of the instruments. The vocals, piano, & guitars sit well together but to me (and this is just my opinion) the drums seem like they are just in a different space. I'd try different reverb on the drums but that's just me.
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I've heard comments of this nature hundreds times ... but that's sort of the challenge faced by all home recordists ... and one of particular peculiar.

We, the band, me, doesn't play in the same room, so we, the band, me, do our/my best to "fake the room" ... and I'm not sure that we, the band, me ... ok, I'll stop that ...

... I'm not certain that I can't do an adequate job of reconstructing what studios do these days too ... for they too, have adapted to the track one performs in NY, then send me your tracks from LA and save the plane ticket and lodging cost too. They so do. So the sound of the times becomes the economic of the times ... not the same room.

Kick must stay dry ... unless it is the right sound otherwise ... God help you with those reverberations. :)

But, to your point, I added a LOT of back space to the snare ... and I like dry toms and hi hat ... so I almost never add BIG surrounding air to those. I want them heard clear with punch and definition, not confused diffused in a mix ... unless of course that's the sound I want. It's ALL about learning enough how to use the tools available (there aren't a lot) to sculpt the sound you want to hear. One must only learn what they do and how they interact.

I don't know about others here, but this just occurred to me. I (and others I know) have been here a long time. We came seeking knowledge and learned while here through the flame wars that won nothing. (This is NOT a comment on prior post ... just a little acknowledgement of ... here)

What you hear here from me, is partly because of the challenging fires one forges knowledge from the flames here ... and I've still MILES to learn. Sadly, my day gig keeps me tied to what I need to do to pay my bills ... but this is the passion I could do, if only there was any money in it.

:)
 
K-dub said:
I've heard comments of this nature hundreds times ... but that's sort of the challenge faced by all home recordists ... and one of particular peculiar.

We, the band, me, doesn't play in the same room, so we, the band, me, do our/my best to "fake the room" ... and I'm not sure that we, the band, me ... ok, I'll stop that ...

... I'm not certain that I can't do an adequate job of reconstructing what studios do these days too ... for they too, have adapted to the track one performs in NY, then send me your tracks from LA and save the plane ticket and lodging cost too. They so do. So the sound of the times becomes the economic of the times ... not the same room.

Kick must stay dry ... unless it is the right sound otherwise ... God help you with those reverberations. :)

But, to your point, I added a LOT of back space to the snare ... and I like dry toms and hi hat ... so I almost never add BIG surrounding air to those. I want them heard clear with punch and definition, not confused diffused in a mix ... unless of course that's the sound I want. It's ALL about learning enough how to use the tools available (there aren't a lot) to sculpt the sound you want to hear. One must only learn what they do and how they interact.

I don't know about others here, but this just occurred to me. I (and others I know) have been here a long time. We came seeking knowledge and learned while here through the flame wars that won nothing. (This is NOT a comment on prior post ... just a little acknowledgement of ... here)

What you hear here from me, is partly because of the challenging fires one forges knowledge from the flames here ... and I've still MILES to learn. Sadly, my day gig keeps me tied to what I need to do to pay my bills ... but this is the passion I could do, if only there was any money in it.

:)
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Dude, no need to get you panties all in a wad. You're the one that posted the song asking for comments. I took the time to listen to your song twice and provided my comments that's all. Don't really get your "flame wars" insinuation but whatever.... :rolleyes:
 
Simman said:
Dude, no need to get you panties all in a wad. You're the one that posted the song asking for comments. I took the time to listen to your song twice and provided my comments that's all. Don't really get your "flame wars" insinuation but whatever.... :rolleyes:
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Really? I thought I was clearly obtuse. It's a reference back to the taming of the west here. Remember when the board wasn't as user friendly as it is now? I wonder where those folks are now? As I said, it wasn't in reference to what you said. You weren't being accused of flaming. :)

If you take a step back and look at my reply in a more general manner ... then you might see. I started replying to your post and wandered off on tangent thoughts.

... and I am sorry for the distracted response ... for I do thank you for your comment and although I can be a dick ... this wasn't the time nor place nor care.

I'm sorry if I misspoke as such. It turned into one of my philosophical musings ... how knowledge was gained from this board in spite of how hard it was to avoid the flames back then. This board isn't unique in that either. Back around 2000 or so, I belonged to another board sponsored by the publisher of Mix Magazine that hosted some of the folks mentioned above. Joe Chiccarelli and Al Schmitt were the guest moderators on that board and at first contributed frequently to the discussions. Eventually the flamers got so bad that they just stopped commenting and the board quietly disappeared.
 
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I really hit the vocal way too hard w/ compression and it lacks dynamic pulse accordingly. It holds well enough together in the mix, but lacks a natural I'd like to hear better in a natural state. It comes across a little to pressed against glass.

:)

I try hard to listen to what I hear. :)
 
New mix up top.

I pulled back on the lead vocal limiter, which removed a little of the pressed glass feel and let it breath a little more naturally.

I pulled the rhythm electric back a db too ... it was dominating the stage a little too much versus playing nice w/ others. The entry of the harmony vocals in the first chorus, I thought slightly abrupt, so I slowed the "jump from behind the bushes" attack by fading them in quickly, but more gradually.

Since the only drum I had any reverb on was the snare (I like a mostly dry kit), I played with that a bit and hoped it helped pull things better into the same space.

Just because I've heard comments of that nature a hundred times, doesn't mean I stopped listening when it gets mentioned. :)

Thanks for the help all!

Kev-
 
No real gripes on the recording. I think much of your stuff is to the point that the recording isn't the issue and I look more towards the production and music. Although there many times, where there are fine points to look at with the recording, a lot comes down to opinion and there's so much stuff selling nowadays that's just horrible, I don't think "recording quality" has much to do with popularity and liking much of the time.

So... this song...
It's OK. But I feel that there's really nothing that totally "wows" me either chops wize or production, or melody arranging., etc. It's OK, but is along the lines of the 45 version of the B side to me.
Admittedly, I'm pretty picky what I'd even considering buying these days, and actually much of my choices would exhibits stuff that is waaaaay beyond my capabilities, all in performance, ideas, execution and all that.
This is just "good" recording with no icing. Good for party background music, I suppose, but I listen to music more critically being a musician myself, I guess.

Nice stuff...
 
Good points, Chris. Not every Beatles song was a "hit" but all were at least listenable ... but for Revolution #9 which to this day I've never listened full through.

The balance about becoming cognizant of how to record properly becomes an issue of don't overdo ... by letting production stand in for or overwhelm the actual song.

Production can make a mediocre song sound better, but it can also destroy a good song if done poorly.

I'm only half way through this catalog for the next release. Some of these are going to be tougher ... and I'm picking the low hanging fruit (ones I've got arrangement and production ideas on already) first. I'm trying to track down a real trumpet player for "Toss it all behind" ...

:)

Kev-
 
K-dub said:
but for Revolution #9 which to this day I've never listened full through.
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Oh jeez, it's what? 9+ minutes or so? Just suck it up and listen to it. Christ.

I'll check this one out later Dub.
 
I thought just about everything sounded good. I'll mention the exceptions...

Harmony vocal... on the right side during the chorus. The high harmony part over there had some swirliness to it. Maybe a lot chorus on it? Something unnatural to my ear. Most people aren't going to notice.

I thought the snare was "too big." Lot's of room sound on it and it's a bit loud.

These are minor complaints and more personal preferences. Just my thoughts.
 
Stainless made the same "too big" snare comment also ... so there's two votes on that.

Thanks Trip!
 
Vocals and guitar came out excellent on this. Great clarity without sacrificing depth. I too felt the drums seemed a bit disconnected from the rest sonically, but not 100% sure what it is. Sorry. Not a big deal deal, just stood out a tad. I guess the piano, vocals and guitars seemed to sit together better than the drums did with anything else. Again, not substantial, but you're operating at a level where I'm digging pretty deep here...nice job Kev.
 
heatmiser said:
Vocals and guitar came out excellent on this. Great clarity without sacrificing depth. I too felt the drums seemed a bit disconnected from the rest sonically, but not 100% sure what it is. Sorry. Not a big deal deal, just stood out a tad. I guess the piano, vocals and guitars seemed to sit together better than the drums did with anything else. Again, not substantial, but you're operating at a level where I'm digging pretty deep here...nice job Kev.
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Just a quick further update ...

After many comments like yours, P (inc. Simman's above) ... about the drums seeming "out of sorts" , I swapped out the snare and hi hat for a different voicing and remixed everything again.

The results are on the above link.

Thanks to ALL for the great comments. I really do listen, and you folks really do help.

Best,

Kev-
 
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