GuitardedMark
New member
I'd say there's a good chance its the pickups on his guitar. I've heard some amazing setups played with a guitar that has poor pickups and it can really cause a huge loss in tone.
I'd say there's a good chance its the pickups on his guitar. I've heard some amazing setups played with a guitar that has poor pickups and it can really cause a huge loss in tone.
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moresound
Loud Sun Studios
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scotty_777
New member
Sorry. i know a lot of you replied, but i literraly have to leave for work in 5 minutes, so I'll just quickly reply to 1 and then get back to the others in about 8 hours when im done hehe.
Anyway, yes this amp is superb for metal. But thats metal like metallica. In fact metallica uses blackstar. Perfect tone for that. but thats with the gain at o'clock. And metallica hardly reaches the gain on the clip in the OP. (August Burns red) Or maybe the gain isn't the problem and I need look elsewhere...
I know basically 0 about guitar pickups so i'll look into that. thanks a bundle. And GuitardedMark, thanks heaps for the long helpful reply. after work we'll have a chat
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scotty_777
New member
howdy
this is bad. I actually dont know what type hey. I know its a black casino but could not find it on the internet. no idea about pickups.
I am using 54's. guess ill have to get 56's externally cause nobody sells them here.
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I never do anything to the guitar. the sound i get is the sound i get. if its bad, i re-record.
same here. but i still want to change over becuase i always though mic would have better potential. maybe right now im finding out otherwise.
Will give this a try thanks
awesome. thats something else to give a try
thanks legend. Your stuff it pretty swarve too. any tips on how you got your bass would be awesome too!
legionserial
New member
The combination of several tracks recorded just below clipped....you'd have to turn every track way down to stop the master bus clipping. It's a waste of time. It's usually advisable to go in with an average of about -18dbFS (not a peak, an average, although peaking at -18 won't ruin anything). That may seem quiet, but when all the tracks are combined, your master bus is going to be peaking well above that. Digital recording gives you the opportunity for a considerable amount of headroom. A lot of it has to do with the fact that in digital the noise floor is lower than analogue, due to lack of tape whirring, and other things.
With analogue, it's a little different. You can record just below clipping, or even push it over, because whereas some amount of analogue clipping may actually add some character and warmth to the sound, digital clipping just sounds nasty. 0bdVU (analogue), equates to roughly -18dbFS (digital). this isn't exact though, it depends on your converters.
You don't want your master bus to be peaking just below clipping either. This is going to leave you no headroom for mastering for a start. If I recall, I don't generally let my master bus go above -6dbFS. The master fader itself, I always keep at zero. If you're having to turn the master fader down a lot, your tracks are probably too loud. If you have to turn all your track faders down a lot, again, your tracks are probably too loud.
Going just below clipping....on it's own, is not going to make anything sound better. the actual sound will be exactly the same. It's just needlessly louder.
I've probably made a couple of minor mistakes in what I've said here, because I find it easier to undertstand it than to actually put it into words. So I trust someone will correct those, but this is pretty much the basics of it.
legionserial
New member
Scotty....this might be a silly question, but you're not using single coil pickups are you?
Sonixx
New member
This is a good question.
Scotty, I've tried reamping with your DI but the bottom is too loose. Palm muting is a necessity.
I reamped using some other tight playing DI clips I have and I believe the HT5 (driving a V30) will do what you want. I'm trying to determine another route. I'm basing this all on the example in your first post.
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scotty_777
New member
i duno hahaha
they look like this
http://www.drumza.com/images/SeymourDuncanDistortionMayhemHumbuckerGuitarPickupSet.jpg
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scotty_777
New member
what do you mean "the bottum is too loose"? Do you mean the bottum string is tuned too low?
I thought I palm muted a lot in my example.
thanks for all your time though. you rule!
what settings did you use on the ht5? like bass, treble, mids, isf.
Sonixx
New member
Those are humbuckers. Are you playing the bridge PUP.i duno hahaha
they look like this
http://www.drumza.com/images/SeymourDuncanDistortionMayhemHumbuckerGuitarPickupSet.jpg
No, not downtuning but playing . If I get a chance today I'll post your DI reamp against a similar tight riff with the HT5.
If this collage (guitar tone wise) is similar enough to your example to make the point, I can carve out the guitars and overlay a HT5 reamp. I reamped the rhythms and have the DIs. This is a band called Deadhead and the CD is Depression Tank.
Also note that getting the Bass right will really be the key. The heaviness ends up in the Bass/Gtr relationship and should sound like one instrument.
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scotty_777
New member
oh yeah im playing the bridge pickups for sure.
are you just sayin my playing is too sloppy? it was a pretty slack effort just to get the tone.
that tone sounds sweet! i'd love to write stuff with that. I dont know what carving out the guitars means, or overlaying a HT5 reamp. or even if this helps me in my recording. a lot of this is over my head sorry.
[/QUOTE]
I've asked countless times in this thread for bass tips but everyone seems to overlook it.
Sonixx
New member
Here's a five part clip
Chain is OD808 -> HT5 -> V30 -> SM57
HT5 Settings:
11:00 - Gain
4:00 - Vol
12:00 - Bass
9:00 - Mid
3:00 - Trb
2:00 - ISF
- Original Track
- Guitars Carved out along with other stuff
- HT5 added
- HT5 only
- Track + HT5
Chain is OD808 -> HT5 -> V30 -> SM57
HT5 Settings:
11:00 - Gain
4:00 - Vol
12:00 - Bass
9:00 - Mid
3:00 - Trb
2:00 - ISF
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scotty_777
New member
wow, thanks for all the time and effort you've put into me. I'll definatly give that a go when I got time on my hands. You, sir, are awesome!!!
As for the sound, it does seem to be midding a lot of that... im not good with technical terms, so I'll say 'high pitch crunch'. that's basically why i said ht4 doesn't have enough gain but maybe its just cause of something else. but It's a great help and thanks a bundle! maybe im just so stupid I duno what sound makes what...
GuitardedMark
New member
I do agree with you for the most part, but my issue has been recording on less than professional gear. I've always had a rather high noise signal coming in UNLESS I max input gain as much as I can without clipping. I'd rather turn the tracks down than deal with a hiss or noise floor that is too high. I'm sure if i had pro gear this wouldn't apply but I'm using some pretty outdated stuff and I'm assuming scotty doesn't have pro gear either.
GuitardedMark
New member
I hope this is helping!
I listened to the clips a little bit and I must agree August burns red's tone is awesome. Your tone aint too bad either. There were a few main differences.
-It sounds like ABR is using some high output pickups (possibly EMG-81). Im a HUGE believer in high output pickups because the tighten the tone. I actually role my volume off my 81 by about 10% just to tighten it up more.
-There is defeinitely some improvement with your EQing. I notice its very bass heavy and doesn't quite have that tight punchy upper mid/low treble bite. I think the bass recording is a big part. I agree with the post that said the bass and guitar should almost sound like 1 intrument (at least when your looking for tone like the ABR youtube video). I have a couple tips that have helped me get the best when recording bass tone.
1. TUNE THE BASS!!!! Make sure you test and MAKE SURE the bass is as close to in tune with the guitar as possible. So often guitar players that are recording neglect the tuning of their bass which can REALLY kill the tone.
2. I start EQing the guitar before I even touch the bass EQ. The guitar stands out and is the core of the tone and I think the bass should be meant to compliment the guitar more than stand alone.
3. I then start EQing the bass a little. I usually start with a somewhat similar EQ to the guitar and then start rolling off some lower frequencies on the guitar and adjust the two to complement each other. Typically I try to match the mids and high mids more than the lows. I let the bass take care of most the lows. Be careful not too put too much low end on the bass though as it can make the overall sound muddy.
4. Then I fine tune the mix and bounce in between bass and guitar EQing to finalize the mix.
- I wouldn't worry about upgrading to a heavier gauge strings. It wont make a huge difference from where your at.
- I would focus more of the recording techniques than your fear right now(unless you got the cash to throw down). If you are going to buy new gear I would probably start with an emg-81 at the bridge. I'm not TOO familiar with the HT5 but I from what I've heard it sounds very much like metallica tone. Amazingly enough, this is one of the VERY FEW time I will suggest trying a tubescreamer in front of the amp to give it more grit.
I did only get about 5 minutes to listen to your clip on friday so I'm just trying my best to remember what I thought then. If your still having trouble, continue posting and ill listen to them again and try to get more specific.
I listened to the clips a little bit and I must agree August burns red's tone is awesome. Your tone aint too bad either. There were a few main differences.
-It sounds like ABR is using some high output pickups (possibly EMG-81). Im a HUGE believer in high output pickups because the tighten the tone. I actually role my volume off my 81 by about 10% just to tighten it up more.
-There is defeinitely some improvement with your EQing. I notice its very bass heavy and doesn't quite have that tight punchy upper mid/low treble bite. I think the bass recording is a big part. I agree with the post that said the bass and guitar should almost sound like 1 intrument (at least when your looking for tone like the ABR youtube video). I have a couple tips that have helped me get the best when recording bass tone.
1. TUNE THE BASS!!!! Make sure you test and MAKE SURE the bass is as close to in tune with the guitar as possible. So often guitar players that are recording neglect the tuning of their bass which can REALLY kill the tone.
2. I start EQing the guitar before I even touch the bass EQ. The guitar stands out and is the core of the tone and I think the bass should be meant to compliment the guitar more than stand alone.
3. I then start EQing the bass a little. I usually start with a somewhat similar EQ to the guitar and then start rolling off some lower frequencies on the guitar and adjust the two to complement each other. Typically I try to match the mids and high mids more than the lows. I let the bass take care of most the lows. Be careful not too put too much low end on the bass though as it can make the overall sound muddy.
4. Then I fine tune the mix and bounce in between bass and guitar EQing to finalize the mix.
- I wouldn't worry about upgrading to a heavier gauge strings. It wont make a huge difference from where your at.
- I would focus more of the recording techniques than your fear right now(unless you got the cash to throw down). If you are going to buy new gear I would probably start with an emg-81 at the bridge. I'm not TOO familiar with the HT5 but I from what I've heard it sounds very much like metallica tone. Amazingly enough, this is one of the VERY FEW time I will suggest trying a tubescreamer in front of the amp to give it more grit.
I did only get about 5 minutes to listen to your clip on friday so I'm just trying my best to remember what I thought then. If your still having trouble, continue posting and ill listen to them again and try to get more specific.
DrewPeterson7
Sage of the Order
Admittedly, I haven't listened to the clip in your original post... but I listen to my fair share of relatively extreme metal, and I'd be surprised if a Blackstar and a tube screamer couldn't provide you the level of saturation they're getting.
GuitardedMark
New member
I think hes getting enough saturation, its just not the right kind.
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Chibi Nappa
New member
You must be doing something wrong with your gain staging. The worst of the worst hobby gear won't have a noise floor that could approach even a quiet electric guitar.
GuitardedMark
New member
Well thats definitely not true!
I think I have a faulty jack or maybe just a poor unit (us-122). I'm going to be upgrading soon partially because of this but i still get the noise. Its not horrible but I can hear it.
I've also noticed that the input seems to "warm up" and get a fuller tone when I get close to clipping. I've noticed this with a couple other interfaces too.
The last reason I get a lot of input is because sometimes I use some weird effects like flanger,metalizer and compression and it can really suck the gain out of my recordings. I'd rather have to pull down than not have enough to go up. Maybe it's just me but I notice quality loss when I boost a signal digitally. I'd much rather cut it.