Line 6 is going to turn the mic world upside down

[ez_willis]

I'm glad we got that "settled"....

It's gotten to the point that no matter what gear is used/mentioned by anyone on forums...
...the only response that works is to tell them you think it's *fantastic gear*.
Anything less...and here we go....

that's dumb.

 

[miroslav]

...the only time I ever had an amp die on me mid-gig was when two pints of beer got dumped into the innards of a Marshall TSL-100 head minutes before showtime.

Was it a nice ale at least?
Please tell me it wasn't some light/less filling swill.

Depends on how the distortion is done. Clipping diodes . . . not so good. Single-ended FET . . . good.

Don't much care for either way by itself...unless it's from a pedal that is going into a tube amp that is already part-way into tube distortion, and the pedal just adds a little kick to it.
Getting all the distortion from just them isn't something I care for, and with an SS amp...that's all you got.

I have several OD pedals...and I plug them in occasionally, but honestly, whenever I record, it's always been just the amps because I can get almost any flavor of crunch I want just from the amps.
Playing live...when you need to set your amp at a certain playing level...well, it's not always easy to switch from clean to crunch on a single channel amp...so using a pedal helps.

that's dumb.

But very true.
Everyone usually wants everyone else to agree with their gear choices.

 

[DrewPeterson7]

Was it a nice ale at least?
Please tell me it wasn't some light/less filling swill.

I was playing at a toga party at a college frat house. It was probably Bud Light.

 

[mshilarious]

Don't much care for either way by itself...unless it's from a pedal that is going into a tube amp that is already part-way into tube distortion, and the pedal just adds a little kick to it.
Getting all the distortion from just them isn't something I care for, and with an SS amp...that's all you got.

I don't really care for any pedals. They usually only have 9V to play with, not really enough for fun Someday I might get around to building my guitar amp design, but most people will think it is very, very strange, because:

Everyone usually wants everyone else to agree with their gear choices.

See, I don't. Nobody agrees with my gear choices. I assume that is because they are not as smart as I am

 

[DrewPeterson7]

Don't want to split hairs here, but I've heard plenty of stories of Mesas falling off full stacks mid-show and never missing a note. How different that is from a set of stairs, I don't know if I'd want to try to find out, but unless they hit something with enough force for a tube to actually pop out (and at that point I'd be worried about ANY amp) you should be ok.

Ironically, I was talking to a Mesa-endorsed buddy of mine a couple minutes ago, and it happened to come up that a former bandmate once dropped a Triple Recto down a flight of stairs. All the tubes popped out and went flying. He picked them up, popped them back in, and powered it up, and it still worked like a charm.

 

[ez_willis]

But very true.
Everyone usually wants everyone else to agree with their gear choices.

i don't see it like that. very rarely does someone purchase a piece of equipment then come to the boards for approval. usually they(and we) come here asking for real life experience with a product they are thinking about buying to help them come to a decision.

and that isn't even what's going on in this thread. i am not a proponent of amp sims, and i can totally appreciate you not liking them in any way, but to say that everyone should always buy a real amp in all situations is ridiculous.

 

[ez_willis]

See, I don't. Nobody agrees with my gear choices. I assume that is because they are not as smart as I am

and i can vouch for this.

 

[miroslav]

I was playing at a toga party at a college frat house. It was probably Bud Light.

I bet it was Coors Light!

My tap water has more flavor.

 

[miroslav]

i am not a proponent of amp sims, and i can totally appreciate you not liking them in any way, but to say that everyone should always buy a real amp in all situations is ridiculous.

And I never said everyone always buy a real amp in all situations....'cuz I know many of the pod purchases are purely budget-made decisions…so people without $$$ are not going to get a real decent tube amp no matter how much they like its tone.

I'm saying...you can play dodge ball all day...but a real tube amp will trump amp sims every time...and quite frankly, unless you're trying to record a full-tilt Death Metal band in your one-bedroom apartment at 2:00AM...
...real tube amps can be used in ANY recording environment.
There are like dozens of 1W-5W amps that KICK ASS sound-wise, and are no louder than a TV or stereo.
No one said to dime a 100W stack in an apartment bedroom...and then be forced to use a pod 'cuz the neighbors complained!
You can even stick a 25W amp in a closet full of clothes...and it's like DEAD outside, level-wise.

Pods are about "NO $$$" and/or "lazy-ass convenience"....then everyone that has one tries to prop it up for it's amp modeling quality!
And that's my main point.

Oh…and if you have to go 15 hours between responses…this will take too long!

 

[ez_willis]

Oh…and if you have to go 15 hours between responses…this will take too long!

you're gonna have to wait a lot longer than that.

 

[mshilarious]

I'm saying...you can play dodge ball all day...but a real tube amp will trump amp sims every time...Pods are about "NO $$$" and/or "lazy-ass convenience"....then everyone that has one tries to prop it up for it's amp modeling quality!

Not me, I have a tube amp . . . well, had, it's kinda broked at the moment, and I lack motivation to fix it. It did sound good though . . . anyway, don't have a Pod, but I use a VST amp sim together with some tools I wrote (gonna release a compressor VST shortly). I don't particularly care what kind of amp it is supposed to be simming, I just dial up a tone I like and get on with it. If I feel the need to move some air (which I don't), my stage monitors are wired into my rack and ready for business, that is 2x12 in stereo and 150W total, and my studio is soundproof so I do what I like . . . which is mostly monitor on headphones. Usually I don't even record into the VST, I just monitor the DI sound from the guitar, and decide how it should sound later.

Given that I can build anything I want for fairly cheap (single-ended tube amp, ~$100 in parts, mostly the transformers), I don't agree with your thesis. I would be totally happy on stage with nothing but DSP and wedges, preferably wedges that somebody else had to set up But I really only play out on bass (where I go DI with no effects), so . . .

 

[miroslav]

...I don't agree with your thesis. I would be totally happy on stage with nothing but DSP and wedges...

Well...whatever works for ya!

I'm going to lean more toward what the majority of serious players are using for serious gigs...not talking about the guys that do gigs at the corner beer tavern (heck, for those gigs, does it really matter?).

But hey...there's always some rebel who does it his way!!!

 

[WhiteStrat]

Well...whatever works for ya!

I'm going to lean more toward what the majority of serious players are using for serious gigs...not talking about the guys that do gigs at the corner beer tavern (heck, for those gigs, does it really matter?).

But hey...there's always some rebel who does it his way!!!

Hmmm...I'm confused. Help me out here. In this case, you find it makes sense to go with what the majority of serious players do--and are quite willing to dig in your heels in the pursuit of that stand (Exhibit A: yet another thread that has devolved into a repetitive, pedantic argument).

And yet in other cases, (need I mention the topics?) you reject conventional wisdom out of hand, and readily dismiss what the majority of serious players do--maintaining that there's always lots of ways to do things, no rules, etc., and are also quite willing to argue that position ad nauseum.

What could explain such inconsistency at such a core philosophical level?

A very wise person I know (I won't name him, but his initials are WhiteStrat) once opined that perhaps a) you can't stand being wrong (or even allowing that others may also be right); and/or b) you just love to argue.

Nahhh...that couldn't be. Could it?

 

[mshilarious]

Well...whatever works for ya!

I'm going to lean more toward what the majority of serious players are using for serious gigs...not talking about the guys that do gigs at the corner beer tavern (heck, for those gigs, does it really matter?).

According to you, it does. You are playing for the one guy in the bar (if he indeed exists), remember?

And yes...there ARE people that notice the gear you use and the quality of the tones you make...just like they notice how someone plays. Maybe not the majority of the mindless bar crowds...but then, who cares what they think anyway...I'm not playing for them, I'm playing for the ones that do notice...and for myself most of all.

Second point, guitarists are very, very conservative when it comes to their rigs (this is why you said "notice the gear" before you mentioned "quality of tones"). They are probably the least innovative rock musicians now, and yes, that includes singers. Innovation in guitar ended in the '80s when guitarists as a class rejected synthesis. Sure, it was a crude tool at the time, but that didn't stop players like Holdsworth from doing completely brilliant things with it. And now you see with "amp sims". Why are they called that? Why is DSP generally employed to reproduce a specific type of analog circuit, when it can be deployed in creative fashions impossible with analog? It's because guitarists in general aren't very creative anymore. If we can't use new tools to create new music, then we are boring, irrelevant people who should just die to make room for a new generation that isn't so myopic.

Third point, plenty of pro guitarists do use models of some sort. It's not rare at all to see mention of such on the "pro" (and I use that term loosely) boards.

Fourth point, the "tube amp sound" is de rigeur only for a limited spectrum of electric guitar music.

Fifth point, I assure you I am very, very, very serious about electronics

 

[mshilarious]

What could explain such inconsistency at such a core philosophical level?

A very wise person I know (I won't name him, but his initials are WhiteStrat) once opined that perhaps a) you can't stand being wrong (or even allowing that others may also be right); and/or b) you just love to argue.

Much simpler answer: he's a guitarist. The guitarist in my first band was an EVH freak who like to gig in a Villanova smoking jacket, black t-shirt and jeans.

As a rule, guitarists aren't known for their intellectual consis . . . hey, check out the rack on the chick in the front row!

Word has it that he's rich defense attorney with eight kids now. Which really bothers me--not the money, but nobody should have more kids than me!

 

[WhiteStrat]

Much simpler answer: he's a guitarist. The guitarist in my first band was an EVH freak who like to gig in a Villanova smoking jacket, black t-shirt and jeans.

As a rule, guitarists aren't known for their intellectual consis . . . hey, check out the rack on the chick in the front row!

Word has it that he's rich defense attorney with eight kids now. Which really bothers me--not the money, but nobody should have more kids than me!

C'mon, give us guitarists a bit of credit! Surely we're not that one dimensional! I'm a guitarist--arguably a serious one--and I'm not nearly so closed minded.

I stand by my earlier theory: dude just loves to argue.

 

[mshilarious]

C'mon, give us guitarists a bit of credit! Surely we're not that one dimensional! I'm a guitarist--arguably a serious one--and I'm not nearly so closed minded.

Inconsistent is not the same thing as closed minded. Indeed, it's easy to be consistent if you never change your mind

So I was jamming with my "band" as I guess it is, and the guitarist just got the latest Fender DSP amp, which he upgraded to from the slightly older Fender DSP amp. So we just turn on its canned tunes and play along, which beats having to actually learn any songs. I can't be bothered to remember songs. Drummer brought his VDrums, which didn't sound bad at all. It was all quite surreal, I was wishing I had a Steinberger and a bad haircut instead of my Beatle bass ripoff

So I have resolved to become a keyboard player instead

 

[WhiteStrat]

Inconsistent is not the same thing as closed minded.

Right you are. I stand corrected.

 

[miroslav]

Hmmm...I'm confused.

I'm getting use to it...

And yet in other cases, (need I mention the topics?) you reject conventional wisdom out of hand, and readily dismiss what the majority of serious players do--maintaining that there's always lots of ways to do things, no rules, etc., and are also quite willing to argue that position ad nauseum.

Different things...one is about quality of tone...the other is about getting it without rules (but it still has to be quality).
The fact that real tube amps sound great and pods suck ass and DO NOT sound like real amps...is NOT a rule...it's a fact.
I was open-minded many times and tried many a pod/sim…and NOPE…they can’t hide their digital pedigree.
Maybe you just don’t hear it.

You are playing for the one guy in the bar (if he indeed exists), remember?)

He does...it's me/you...the player.

If I'm not thrilled about my gear and tone...WTF do I care if no one in the bar notices or cares about...or is it all just mercenary "gig" mentality that's taking over that scene these days?

... dude just loves to argue.

As usual...you show up towards the end of a thread...try to pick a fight on the leftover scraps of the thread...then go and accuse someone else that they "love to argue".
How many more times are you going to do that...???


The thread was pretty much fizzed out (just like the last time) and we've been simply "tossin’ the ball" back-n-forth...
…and once again you show up with this "wait a minute" attitude...like you really got something new to add!

I'm beginning to see that YOU are the one always looking for actual *arguments*...
…I'm just debating the topic at hand.

 

[WhiteStrat]

I'm getting use to it...



Different things...one is about quality of tone...the other is about getting it without rules (but it still has to be quality).
The fact that real tube amps sound great and pods suck ass and DO NOT sound like real amps...is NOT a rule...it's a fact.
I was open-minded many times and tried many a pod/sim…and NOPE…they can’t hide their digital pedigree.
Maybe you just don’t hear it.




He does...it's me/you...the player.

If I'm not thrilled about my gear and tone...WTF do I care if no one in the bar notices or cares about...or is it all just mercenary "gig" mentality that's taking over that scene these days?




As usual...you show up towards the end of a thread...try to pick a fight on the leftover scraps of the thread...then go and accuse someone else that they "love to argue".
How many more times are you going to do that...???


The thread was pretty much fizzed out (just like the last time) and we've been simply "tossin’ the ball" back-n-forth...
…and once again you show up with this "wait a minute" attitude...like you really got something new to add!

I'm beginning to see that YOU are the one always looking for actual *arguments*...
…I'm just debating the topic at hand.

Yep. That's what I thought. Thanks for clearing it up for me!