"Illustrations" Rock Mix

[jndietz]

Just wondering if you guys wouldn't mind giving me a few pointers on mixing this particular song. I know its a little loud. That is one of the first things I will address as I continue to mix this.

* The drums were recorded in a smaller room, with reverb added in later. The kick and snare were sent to it's own bus, as with the toms, and the overheads. None of the drums were replaced.

* Guitars were recorded with a PRS Custom 24 into a B-52 ST6012. Miked with an SM57 and MXL991 condenser microphone and mixed to taste.

* Bass was an ESP bass run direct.

* Vocals were recorded with an MXL990. Compression settings set to 6:1 with 2.0ms attack and 200ms release.

Mix 01:http://www.lightningmp3.com/live/file.php?id=23902

Mix 02 (uploaded 6/13):http://www.lightningmp3.com/live/file.php?id=23928

Mix 03 (uploaded 6/18):http://www.lightningmp3.com/live/file.php?id=24044

 

[jndietz]

Updated some info for the thread.

 

[mattr]

I need to run off so I don't have time to critique the whole thing, but the first thing that comes to mind would be to widen out the guitars in the intro - thin them out, and push them to the sides to make some space down the middle for the vocals. The roomy-sounding snare roll would lend itself to some wider (and quieter?) guitars, possibly also with a healthy dose of nice 'verb on them, which would also provide a nice contrast when the main thing kicked in.

 

[jndietz]

Uploaded a new mix. Made it a little quieter, added some compression to the guitars and smashed the vocals out a little bit! Also added some more reverb to the drums.

 

[singlespeak]

I would try turning the solo guitar down just a little. I think your strum guitars could have more crunch in them (sorry I don't know which freq to point at, they're a bit dull). There's something that makes your drums (the snare especially) not fit very well in your mix, to my taste at least. I don't know how to give ideas to resolve it, I just recognize the issue from when I was mixing songs. Instinctively I would say re-record and hit the snare (much) harder, and then bring the volume down of course. But I might be mistaken. I'm not particularly a fan of your style of singing, but your vocals are very impressive indeed. So minor adjustments, nearly finished.

 

[maximusbs]

The tune was pretty good, but kinda left me wanting a hook. I don't think you asked for song critiques, so here's the mix stuff that I heard: The vox seemed low (and distant) in some spots and need to be a little more bold in the mix. I liked the guitar tones a lot (I love the distorted, picked chords; not too mushy and it works). They just need to give the vox just a bit more space. The drums seem to be easliy forgotten when I'm listening, which may mean that they are not cutting through - how to fix that? I'm not sure. Perhaps just a bump in the snare and kick would do.

 

[jeffmaher]

I liked it a lot.

Bass guitar up. Vocal up. Kewel tune...and I like the grind in the thirds during the chorus. A kind of unique thing you got. This ain't a cover, is it??

 

[Ninja_Drummer]

Nice tune man, very very good potential if the mix is right.

First of all, I would lay off the reverb for the snare especially for the intro, kinda too echoeyand outta place for a rock type song. Bring out the vocals and rhythm guitar a bit. Then add a bit of reverb to solo guitar. And for God's sake bring out the kick a bit. but not too much. Can't have a rock song without the kick beatin' in the pulse into you. Probably could add a little reverb to the toms if you can. And I think you could bring a little a bit of the lows in the bass a little bit just so you can have that rumbly and live feeling to it.

Good song, but it just lacks that dynamic and meat that can make it intense and exciting. Sorry to hammer into what might be your style and taste and sound, feel free not to listen to what I said, just inputing what I feel should be done.

 

[joeym]

Really dig the tune.
Voice is too buried and some timing hitches from the drummer. The strummed guitar is too centered and pretty loud. I like the distorted guitar tone.
The mix needs some work to bring it up to standard.

Joey

 

[jndietz]

I liked it a lot.

Bass guitar up. Vocal up. Kewel tune...and I like the grind in the thirds during the chorus. A kind of unique thing you got. This ain't a cover, is it??

This isn't a cover

Nice tune man, very very good potential if the mix is right.

First of all, I would lay off the reverb for the snare especially for the intro, kinda too echoeyand outta place for a rock type song. Bring out the vocals and rhythm guitar a bit. Then add a bit of reverb to solo guitar. And for God's sake bring out the kick a bit. but not too much. Can't have a rock song without the kick beatin' in the pulse into you. Probably could add a little reverb to the toms if you can. And I think you could bring a little a bit of the lows in the bass a little bit just so you can have that rumbly and live feeling to it.

Good song, but it just lacks that dynamic and meat that can make it intense and exciting. Sorry to hammer into what might be your style and taste and sound, feel free not to listen to what I said, just inputing what I feel should be done.

Good stuff right here. I'll lose some of the reverb on the snare and add some to the toms. Even after years of recording and mixing, I have yet to "learn" my gear and know its quirks about how it represents what is tracked. Glad to get more opinions from others with similar gear (especially those with nicer stuff than I!) Thanks a lot!

Really dig the tune.
Voice is too buried and some timing hitches from the drummer. The strummed guitar is too centered and pretty loud. I like the distorted guitar tone.
The mix needs some work to bring it up to standard.

Joey

I wanted to go through and quantize the drums, and may still do so...there is definitely a hitch at the end of the song and some more minors ones throughout.

How do you all suggest I make a more "stereo" clean guitar sound? Double track? Delay the mono signal to left/right to give it more space?

Also, are you all listening to the second mix? I feel that one is definitely better than the first one.

 

[BenignVanilla]

Great tune, like it a lot.

My two cents...

The drums are awesome when the song gets rolling, but in the intro the kick sounds muddy to me. Later the kick is perfect. I am envious of the sound you got there for the entire kit.

The guitars in the second mix sound much better, but I feel like its weighted to the left a little. I'd take the right guitar, and make it righter.

I think I'd bring the vocals up a bit more.

I'd also bump the bass off center just a touch, but that's just me.

Great mix.

 

[TripleM]

I thought the guitars sounded great and the singer has an excellent voice.

Another voice for turning up the vox.

I'd also vote for turning down the drums - at least the snare and overheads. Thought I detected a little splashiness in the cymbals. But not real bad.

The mix is real quiet.

Thought I heard something strange on the vocal at 1:10 - just a word that was sung strangely.

Harmonies in the chorus would be nice. Perhaps a double track lead vocal in the chorus would be cool as well.

 

[jndietz]

I have always had a problem getting a good level for my mixes. A few years back, NL5 and SSG mentioned that the mix should peak around -3 dBFS? Is this correct?

 

[TripleM]

Peak levels aren't a good way to guage it. Average levels are what our ears/brains use to determine perceived volume. That's generally measured in RMS (root mean square - but you don't really need to know that). If you're on a DAW there are plenty of "good enough" RMS meters for free.

Anything above -18db RMS is plenty good enough. Anything above -11db RMS begins to start sounding crappy.

 

[jndietz]

I use Voxengo, a frequency analyzer. I think this will do the job. So I want to shoot for -18dB and -11dB RMS, then?

 

[TripleM]

I use Voxengo, a frequency analyzer. I think this will do the job. So I want to shoot for -18dB and -11dB RMS, then?

Pretty much. I'd go closer to -18 than -11 though.

 

[suprstar]

The intro kick needs some attack, it reminds me of a dinosaur stomping the ground a mile away, or distant thunder, reeeeal low and nothing else I'd bump the vox up a little too, they're kinda quiet. I'm really impressed with the singing, your vocalist (u?) has a nice range and can hit the notes! The guitar playing is nice and all, I think it could use a little more 'meat' in the distortion parts - maybe just a little low end and turn it up a hair or something? I'd mess with that.. When it switches from clean -> distortion, I was expecting more 'ooomph' - not necessarily the guitars, maybe the master needs to be brought up a little. Not enough contrast betw the verses and choruses. Not really sure what to do about it, but that's what I thought when I heard it. It's a good song, better than I thought it'd be, and my nits are pretty minor. It's close, nice work!

 

[jndietz]

Updated the OP with a new mix. Hopefully it will sound a little better

 

[SirCanealot]

Just wanted to say I like this tune... Do you guys have a myspace? Edit: I assume it's the myspace in your sig? I love the singer's voice too. Reminds me a little of the singer from Dredg, who has an amazing voice!

And +1 on the kick drum needed to be louder with more snap. I think the snare (and the rest of the kit) sounds pretty good though (in my humble amateur opinion), and I'm pretty anal on snare sounds

Edit: This is who I thought you sounded a tiny bit like: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S-CdB7-AFKw&feature=fvst

As you can hear in that band, the drummer is a massive, massive engine. I think your kick needs to sound a little more like that!

 

[oceanflame]

Really liked the tune! Kinda reminds me of "Our Lady Peace"... anyway, good stuff you have there. Your cover of "Come Together" is very original!

For your mix, well I listened to it through shit-boxes (computer speakers), it sounded good, except there's something about the drums that doesn't sound quite right. But I don't know what exactly. The kick sounded wierd, muddy. During the intro, the snare may have too much reverb, but that's my opinion, if you like it that way, don't change it. But like I said, I listened to it through shit-boxes.

You have great songs. Definitely a killer song here!
Keep up the good work. Really diggin' your songs here.