New to The Game

  • Thread starter Thread starter bdam123
  • Start date Start date
B

bdam123

Member
Whats up everyone, my name is Brian. I've recently decided to dive head first into mixing. I've played guitar and recorded in a band for years and am currently a part of a production/songwriting collective so I'm not a complete newbie when it comes to this audio stuff.

My main goal is to be able to get quality mixes of our material to bring to meeting with labels and A&Rs. I consider us Top 40 writers so most of our productions are synth based with drum samples. I know my way around Logic Pro pretty well and we've just added Pro Tools 8 to our arsenal. Our mixing will be done exclusively in PT.

I have a few questions as of right now that I hope you guys can help me with. All help will be greatly appreciated and I'll take out this time to thank anyone and everyone that is willing to shine some light for me. So here it is:

1) Whats the best way to set up a PT mix session? I know everyone is different but what do you guys prefer? I'm asking in terms of setting busses for effects and what not. Do you set up different reverbs for all different kind of instruments? ie one for drums, one for synths etc etc?

2) Is it completely necessary for me to set up sub mixes and a mix bus? If so, are these suppose to be Master Faders? How should these be routed?

I should also mention that I'm limited right now to 48 Stereo Tracks with PT. I'm averaging about 20-25 tracks for the music and 45-50 for the vocals. This means I have to the mix in sections. ie mix the beat, bounce a two track than mix the vocals on top. So....

3) How do you guys like building your mixes? Should I stick with mixing the whole beat and then mixing the vocals on top or should I do the drums first, bounce them, do the vocals, and then mix the other instruments around them?

Sorry if some of this might seem obvious but I am a complete newbie here. Thanks again.
 
bdam123 said:
Whats up everyone, my name is Brian. I've recently decided to dive head first into mixing. I've played guitar and recorded in a band for years and am currently a part of a production/songwriting collective so I'm not a complete newbie when it comes to this audio stuff.

My main goal is to be able to get quality mixes of our material to bring to meeting with labels and A&Rs. I consider us Top 40 writers so most of our productions are synth based with drum samples. I know my way around Logic Pro pretty well and we've just added Pro Tools 8 to our arsenal. Our mixing will be done exclusively in PT.

I have a few questions as of right now that I hope you guys can help me with. All help will be greatly appreciated and I'll take out this time to thank anyone and everyone that is willing to shine some light for me. So here it is:

1) Whats the best way to set up a PT mix session? I know everyone is different but what do you guys prefer? I'm asking in terms of setting busses for effects and what not. Do you set up different reverbs for all different kind of instruments? ie one for drums, one for synths etc etc?

2) Is it completely necessary for me to set up sub mixes and a mix bus? If so, are these suppose to be Master Faders? How should these be routed?

I should also mention that I'm limited right now to 48 Stereo Tracks with PT. I'm averaging about 20-25 tracks for the music and 45-50 for the vocals. This means I have to the mix in sections. ie mix the beat, bounce a two track than mix the vocals on top. So....

3) How do you guys like building your mixes? Should I stick with mixing the whole beat and then mixing the vocals on top or should I do the drums first, bounce them, do the vocals, and then mix the other instruments around them?

Sorry if some of this might seem obvious but I am a complete newbie here. Thanks again.
Click to expand...

1. Its going to be different on a per song basis for most people. Some of the guys here are pro's who will be mixing different genre's of music regularly, and some are guys like me who just mix their own stuff. I'd suggest setting up a song or two from scratch and trying to figure yourself out a decent template.

2....and 3. 50 tracks for vocals? Like, 50 separate things happening at once? Could you give an example of what kinda stuff you'd have going on here? I'm just curious.

Having to bounce stuff down is an inflexibility you generally don't have to put up with in the digital age. You could bounce your drums down, but then what if the snare is stepping all over your lead vocal and you need to do some EQ'ing on just the snare?

Generally though and i think everyone will agree, mixing, is mixing everything. You don't mix the drums, then mix the vocals, etc. Certainly (for eg) you can get yourself a rough mix of the drums so they sound good on their own, but you may and probably will find that when you bring in bass, guitars, vocals, you'll need to make adjustments.
 
Haha, not 50 going on at one time. We'll have a track to Verse Lead, then B Sect Lead, than Hook Lead. B Sect and Hook will get stacked 2-4 times. Harmonies where needed, and ad lib tracks.

I totally understand that everything should be mixed together but when you're looking at 100 tracks and your PT can only handle about half of that at a time, thats just the way it goes.

I've done a few mixes today and I'm getting the hang of everything.

I still want to know if making sub groups or a mix bus is necessary.
 
Necessary if its necessary, there is no black and white.

So lets take hook lead and verse lead as examples, why are they on separate tracks? And why(and what exactly does this mean) are they stacked 2-4 times?
 
sorry i cant really help you with pt specifics because i use cubase. im fairly new to mixing and its somthing i need to get better at but these are the ways i have found best.
1) as for reverbs its best to use as few as possible if you have a different reverb for every track you just end up making a load of mud come out of the monitors. at most i would have one reverb set up for all the drums, one fore the vocals, maybe a different one for backing vocals, and if you need it another one, maybe the reverb you use for drums for all the other tracks. and remember to use reverb only to recreate the sound of the room. so creating different spaces for everything makes it sound all over the place rather than in one space. as for sub mixes, i think its a good thing to mix the drums in with everything seperatly and then link the tracks together just so if you have to change the volume it changes it on all the tracks rather than one, keeping the drums together.

as for all your tracks maybe you should try condencing them down, again i dont know how you use them, but i have 2-3 tracks for the lead vocals the only reason i do that is so i have room for overlapping lead vocals, and maybe 2-4 tracks for backing vocals. try a track structure of a track or two for verses, the same for a chorus, and the same for pre choruses, breaks e.t.c. as for setting up effects try setting up sends for all the vocals just so each vocal line sounds the same rather than the tonal quality been completely different on each track.

i hope i have helped a little
 
I usually just create one FX send with reverb and send everything (that needs reverb) pre fader and then adjust until blended with original.
 
bdam123 said:
I should also mention that I'm limited right now to 48 Stereo Tracks with PT. I'm averaging about 20-25 tracks for the music and 45-50 for the vocals. This means I have to the mix in sections. ie mix the beat, bounce a two track than mix the vocals on top. So....
Click to expand...

Don't mean to sound snooty....but maybe you need to then reevaluate your production approach...?
"45-50" tracks for vocals...???
Yeah, I know...there's guys who will run up 100+ tracks, but most of that usually comes from lack of decision making. You know..."Let's leave that take too, and we'll decide later during the mix"...or 'cuz they don't have a clear idea going in, so they just track everything and then toss out half during the mix.

I'm not saying that's not a "valid" way to do it...but I do think it's overkill for most stuff in the Pop/Rock/R&B/Country styles, and most of that kind of music use to be done with MUCH less tracks. I find 24-36 tracks more than enough for most stuff.
I think now days, everyone feels the need to use up whatever their DAW can handle ---- THAT becomes their guideline.
 
miroslav said:
Don't mean to sound snooty....but maybe you need to then reevaluate your production approach...?
"45-50" tracks for vocals...???
Yeah, I know...there's guys who will run up 100+ tracks, but most of that usually comes from lack of decision making. You know..."Let's leave that take too, and we'll decide later during the mix"...or 'cuz they don't have a clear idea going in, so they just track everything and then toss out half during the mix.

I'm not saying that's not a "valid" way to do it...but I do think it's overkill for most stuff in the Pop/Rock/R&B/Country styles, and most of that kind of music use to be done with MUCH less tracks. I find 24-36 tracks more than enough for most stuff.
I think now days, everyone feels the need to use up whatever their DAW can handle ---- THAT becomes their guideline.
Click to expand...

I agree, not saying this is you but... when i started out i used to use stupid amount of tracks and parts because i seemed to think that more is better.
My best bit of advice is to start off small if your new to mixing. its hard to do a good mix of 10 tracks without getting lost with levels, getting over 100 is just going to be mind blowing
 
the reason for so many vocal tracks is because sometimes a line will over lap the next one so if that occurs you have to put the second half of the verse on another track. This doesn't always happen but when it does thats what you gotta do. Also we will treat each section differently. For instance the Hook lead will get more effects than the verse lead so putting them on the same track isn't the best idea. The main lead in the vocal in the hook will get at least doubled then maybe a high harmony and a low harmony. Then you have stress tracks for lyrics we want to pop out and those are usually doubled. Then their are vocal pads will oohh and ahhs that might go over the B sect or the hook. It all just adds up.

My main concern as of right now is getting my mix sessions set up right. I'm doing Sub Mix aux channels for drums, bass, and whatever else can get grouped. All of this are then being fed into a main Sub Mix. Is this right?
 
bdam123 said:
My main concern as of right now is getting my mix sessions set up right. I'm doing Sub Mix aux channels for drums, bass, and whatever else can get grouped. All of this are then being fed into a main Sub Mix. Is this right?
Click to expand...

No, its not right, have you not read whats been said? There isn't a right. Subbing like that has no effect on a mix other than its organisation. Do it if it makes things easier for you.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top