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drum420

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Hello forum readers,

Before I go on, I am a drummer who has been playing for 20 years and spent every one of those just bashing the skins, never paying attention to anything technical at all.. lets let the sound guys take care of it! For the last 4 years I have not able to play seriously, because I like to eat, and my wife informed me that she wanted our first born child to eat as well, so I put my artistic side on the back burner in favor of providing for my family. Recently, musicians from the past have hit me up to work on some music and since we live about 3 hours apart, we've all talked about recording separate tracks and sending them to each other adding our own pieces of the pie. Herein lies my complete lack of knowledge and the basis of my cry for help!

I have done some research and I think that I have gathered a few basics, but here is my situation. I have nice professional quality drums, a very beefy laptop for portability, a mixer, a rack mounted headphone amp, mediocre mics for my drums, and a room that is probably not very good acoustically since one wall is all glass with just hanging curtains in front of them.

GEAR

Drums: DW Custom 5 piece kit with 3 cymbals (crash, splash, hats) on the left along with percussion blocks and cowbells, and 3 cymbals on the right of the kit (crash, ride, china)

Laptop: Asus G73JH – Quad Core I7-720QM processor, 8 gigs of ram, duel 500GB hd's, and a killer graphics card. This was purchased as a gaming laptop, but I was hoping to be able to use it to record as well. The only drawback with this machine is that the only ports available are USB 2.0.

Mixer: Yamaha MG12/4

Mics: An old set of Audio-Technica Kitpak.. I know these mics are not very good, but hoping they will be good enough for what I need to do. The bass drum on my kit also came with a very nice Shure mic (not sure of the model, would have to remove a head to check)and plug built into the shell.

Headphone Amp: Samson S-phone rack mounted 4 channel Headphone mixer/amp

Also I have a Sony hi-def hard drive based digital video camera and Adobe Premiere Elements 8 for making some drum videos down the line.

Basically what I would like is help setting up a home studio with a limited budget, also using the gear that I currently have. I would like to be able to download audio tracks sent to me from the other members of the band and lay down a drum track to it, as well as record drums/video. We will be getting together to practice as a band every other week, and it would be nice to be also be able to record our practices playing thru the headphone amp as well.

After doing some research, I think that I need to purchase a few things... please correct me if I am wrong:
1)audio interface to plug into my laptop that must be USB 2.0 based... something like the E-MU 0404 USB? http://ixbtlabs.com/articles2/proaudio/emu-0404-usb.html
2)2 overhead condenser mics... is the M-Audio Nova a decent choice? They look to be around my price range for a pair.
3)Was thinking about a Shure sm57 to mic my snare because I hate shitty sounding snares, and it would probably be a significant improvement over the old Audio-Technica mics that I have... but this is optional
4)Drum mic mounts and stands for the condenser mics... was looking at the Shure A56D mounts.. not sure on the condenser stands.
5)Software for my laptop.... I saw some free software such as Audacity or even the bundled software with the audio interface that I need to buy... would those work ok?

I'm sorry for the wall of text, but I am the kind of guy who needs to research to make the best purchase for the money... I've done some research, and quite frankly, I feel like my head is going to explode after reading all the technical stuff available to us on the web. Any advice would be greatly appreciated and thanks for your time!
 
Welcome to the boards.

Some answers to your questions:

1. I don't know much about that EMU, but it looks like it will only record 2 tracks at a time. I'm speculating that you'll need at least 4 inputs. Kick, Snare, 2 OH's. Now, you could use your mixer to send a stereo signal to the EMU if you wanted to do that. Another options would be to get an audio interface with enough mic preamps and bypass the mixer all together.

2. I'm not sure about the M-Audio Nova. I use Behringer C2's for OH's and I'm pretty satisfied with the results. I think they're $50/pair.

3. SM57's are good for snares, but why not try your AT mic before you buy one. Also, a good alternative for an SM57 is the GLS-ES57. It's like $30 or something.

4. I don't know about drum mic clips. I use stands for my mics. I've used a couple of clips in the past, but I don't like them. I can get better mic placement with stands.

5. Audacity is free, but it's probably not what you want to use. Check out Reaper. A lot of people on this forum (and others) love it and it's free (I believe) until you want to pay for it, then it's like $60. And you'll probably get some software with your interface. I would just use that.

You might also want to consider acoustic treatment for your room.


Have fun....................
 
Welcome to the wonderful world of recording. You are now doomed ! :)

If you like to research, I strongly suggest reading through the Tweek Guide. It will give you a really good primer on dam near everything and at least point you in the right directions. Here's the link:
http://tweakheadz.com/guide.htm
 
Welcome to the wonderful world of recording. You are now doomed ! :)

If you like to research, I strongly suggest reading through the Tweek Guide. It will give you a really good primer on dam near everything and at least point you in the right directions. Here's the link:
http://tweakheadz.com/guide.htm

lol...so very true! Turn back now while you can! Bro, I love recording and I started out saying well I just need this or that and had a set budget. Well, I have blown that little budget to pieces! Its fun, but I try not and think about the money I have spent thus far. Its very ADDICTING!
 
Thanks for the replies and the helpful links guys!

Dastrick:
"1. I don't know much about that EMU, but it looks like it will only record 2 tracks at a time. I'm speculating that you'll need at least 4 inputs. Kick, Snare, 2 OH's. Now, you could use your mixer to send a stereo signal to the EMU if you wanted to do that. Another options would be to get an audio interface with enough mic preamps and bypass the mixer all together."

I was planning on using the mixer to send a stereo signal to the EMU, but someone suggested http://www.zzounds.com/a--2676837/item--TASUS1641 as a better option... is there an advantage to bypassing the mixer?

Dogbreath and Washburn100:

Excellent links thanks very much! I had already browsed through Tweakheadz and it seemed like everytime i thought I had a grasp of a concept, something else was added to the mix that made my head hurt :eek:
 
I was planning on using the mixer to send a stereo signal to the EMU, but someone suggested http://www.zzounds.com/a--2676837/item--TASUS1641 as a better option... is there an advantage to bypassing the mixer?

You can certainlty do this, but it means having your "mix" correct when you record, you have very little editing options after the fact.

Now with multi-track, using a unit like the Tascam you mention, you can send each mic to it's own track. You now have each drum on its own track to cook with eq, compression, reverb blah, blah, blah. Hell, you can even do "replacement" and have a completely different drum like a sampled kick from John Bonham replace your kick drum as an example.!

While considering getting all those sounds in the box, you probably want to think a little more about DAW software, keeping in mind that you plan on sharing tracks.

Man have you got a lot of research to do!! :)
 
Laptop specs, pls....

Also, it would be helpful to know what your expectations are as to the quality of your finished product.
 
Washburn:

Duh ok i see.... and yes i know i have a ton of research to do! Definitely something that takes a lot of knowledge to do correctly, but im starting!

Supercreep:

Im not going to do any mastering or anything.. i just need to be able to lay down my drum tracks is the most important thing... and I did post my laptop specs in the original post.
 
Washburn:

Duh ok i see.... and yes i know i have a ton of research to do! Definitely something that takes a lot of knowledge to do correctly, but im starting!

Supercreep:

Im not going to do any mastering or anything.. i just need to be able to lay down my drum tracks is the most important thing... and I did post my laptop specs in the original post.

Sorry - I missed that. Lappy should be fine. I've got an Asus G70 as well.

I'd go with kick, snare, and overhead cardioid SDCs, used in a modified glynn johns or recorderman setup. This will minimize room sound. The DWs will sound great pretty much anywhere.
 
thanks for the welcome :) i have a feeling i may be fishing for lots of info hahah
 
ok... I was sold on trying out the Tascam us-1641 but then while i was researching prices I came across the us-2000 which seems to be the same product with upgraded features like LED lights and the xlr inputs on the back instead of the front and a more rugged looking chassis.... the 1641 sells for about 300 everywhere but I saw a few brand new 2000 for 370 on ebay... i've searched extensively for reviews on the 2000 but there's nowhere near the same information as the 1641 and the 2000 seems to have came out in late 2009.... so which would be a better buy? 70 more for the 2000? im stumped as i cant find enough information or comparisons between the 2 :confused:
 
I can't find many actual comparisons and you may have already come across this lot but if it helps, food for thought.....
Just to add, some guys have had issues using it with Audacity and Reaper. But I think it looks interesting. If I ever went totally down the computer route, I think it's what I'd be looking at. But then, what do I know ! ?

http://www.tascam.com/products/us-2000.htmlhttp:

//www.musicgadgets.net/2009/10/23/tascam-us-2000-usb-interface/

http://blog.dv247.com/tascam-us2000-usb-audio-interface-review/10200/

http://www.gearwire.com/tascam-us2000.html

https://homerecording.com/bbs/showthread.php?p=3319742

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k2gE1f2F4AQ :eek:
(This is in German, but you'll get the idea ! :D)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sCqRmwoh6Mw
(This one is not in German ! :eek: But you'll get the idea !)

http://www.lamusic.ca/Tascam-US2000-USB-2-0-Audio-Interface-p/us2000.htm

https://homerecording.com/bbs/showthread.php?t=295649

http://www.drivername.com/dn/115914.html
 
Glad it's your decision. Whenever I have to decide things like this, I end up curled in a corner sobbing!

Just to muddy the water, have you looked at any of the Presonus stuff?
 
Grimtraveller:

Thanks bud, but i had already seen every one of those links you posted, including staring at the german youtube video :laughings: Thats pretty much what i was saying is that i couldnt find any real user experiences with the unit, just manufacturer descriptions etc... what i was really looking for was a good comparison between the 1641 and the 2000... something like "hey if you like the 1641, the 2000 is all that in a neater package, but maybe not worth the 200 dollar price difference"... also maybe driver issues etc... the 1641 you can find pages and pages of forum posts... i think there were 2 posts about the 2000....
 
So, you're starting out with home recording and you want to record a live drum kit. You're on somewhat of a budget. I'd buy the following items:


An interface with at least 4 inputs
This will likely come with bundled audio software. Use that. It's likely sufficient enough for your needs and should work right out of the box (instead of spending more money and time with other software).


The Mics
SM57 for the snare (can't go wrong with that), Beta 52 for the kick (built just for that purpose), two Nova's for the overheads (they'll work fine for the intended application).


Monitors
Not sure if you have these or not (there was no mention in the OP). If not, go to your local music store and listen to some that are in your price range and buy what sounds good to you. There's not much of a science to it, and I've always felt it's more of a personal thing than something you can recommend.


And honestly, short of stands/cables/whatever, that's all you really need to purchase.

Also, nix the mixer and headphone amp idea. You don't need these things for what you're trying to do. It's just going to make things more complicated than they need to be. Just go straight into the interface. If you run into bumps along the road with this setup, adjust as needed. The forums are always here for your support.


Again, keep it as simple as possible, buy good stuff, and take it from there. Good luck!
 
Grimtraveller:

Thanks bud, but i had already seen every one of those links you posted, including staring at the german youtube video :laughings: Thats pretty much what i was saying is that i couldnt find any real user experiences with the unit, just manufacturer descriptions etc... what i was really looking for was a good comparison between the 1641 and the 2000... something like "hey if you like the 1641, the 2000 is all that in a neater package, but maybe not worth the 200 dollar price difference"... also maybe driver issues etc... the 1641 you can find pages and pages of forum posts... i think there were 2 posts about the 2000....
As I was looking through each page as they came up, I was conscious that you may well have already seen most if not all of them. I thought that maybe the odd sentence might be in there that could spark off a search that might yield dividends, you know how it can be when researching in this vast library called the internet ! 'Tis both a blessing and a bind.....
A thought struck me as to why there don't seem to be any comparisons between the 1641 and the 2000 at the moment. Perhaps it's that, because it only came out five months back, those that made the change (I didn't want to say 'upgraded') haven't yet fully got to grips with the differences or those guys and gals that have just aren't the 'contributing ideas and experiences to forums' type ! :eek:
 
Im in the same boat as you in regards to setting up a drum kit for recording.

You need an interface that has at least 4 - 8 inputs.

I wouldnt buy a tascam interface.

I would go with an m audio or perhaps a presonus product...my choice would be m audio...they have other interfaces with more than 4 inputs as well...I would go with m audio.

http://www.m-audio.com/products/en_us/FastTrackUltra.html

http://pro-audio.musiciansfriend.com/product/PreSonus-FireStudio-Project-New-Open-Box?sku=423144


In regards to mics...you need two decent overhead condensor mics,snare mic and kick drum mic.

SM57 for snare is fine.
kick drum...AKG D112 or shure beta52 seem to be the most popular...I here the D112 may be a bit better.

http://www.zzounds.com/a--2676837/item--AKGD112

http://www.zzounds.com/a--2676837/item--SHUBETA52A

Overheads (condensor)...all depends on the budget I guess...look for what you can afford...the M-Audio Nova look ok like you mentioned.

Im not a big fan of Behringer however someone mentioned on this site that they used these as overheads and they sounded ok...they only cost like $60 for a matched pair of them.

http://www.americanmusical.com/Item...2G00SRCHCAPN&gclid=COq9x_Dz1qECFRIhnAodEGMKLQ

For recording software (DAW) I would use reaper...trial doesnt run out...its great for recording...one of the best.

http://www.reaper.fm/
 
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