FireWire 24-track recording, fewest units/simplest setup. (considering PreSonus)

[24tracks]

I posted a thread earlier about recording 24 simultaneous (XLR) tracks into a DAW. (https://homerecording.com/bbs/showthread.php?t=301668)

Looking for a little clarity, if possible.

I see that PreSonus, if I go that route, has the FireStudio 2626, with a diagram showing how to add two DigiMax FS units for 24-track recording, without having to get the additional lightpipe handling units, etc.

However, the FireStudio and DigiMax units appear to be the same price, whereas the DigiMax units are simply missing FireWire output.

Why would I buy this configuration, and not just 3x FireStudio's?

If this is a studio setup, what am I overlooking, or needing to consider?

I'm not trying to save money by skimping on hardware, I just want the most simultaneous XLR ins, with the fewest pieces of physical equipment. Space, simplicity being the concern.

Are there better/more obvious choices/configurations than these units?

 

[dastrick]

have you seen the Presonus StudioLive 24.4.2?

If I had $3,300 to spend....this would be it. The Presonus StudioLive 24.4.2. 24 preamps, one firewire cable running into your laptop/desktop, press "arm all tracks" in the software and record. It doesn't get much easier than that.


I should wipe the drool off my keyboard now.

 

[dastrick]

And I have been a Presonus user for a while, now. I currently have a Firestudio w/ a Digimax FS. I haven't recorded since I've gotten the FS, but I have with the Firestudio and it was rock solid...just like my two Firepods I had before. I am planning on recording my band this week if all goes well.

As for having 3 Firestudios??? I don't see where there would be a problem. You would probably have to connect them to each other with firewire, but I'm not really sure. The benefit of having the Digimax is that you can use it in other systems with an ADAT input. I don't think that you would be able to do that with a Firestudio because you would need to route which inputs would be going out of the ADAT. And the Digimax has inserts on each input if that's important to you.

I would get in touch with Presonus and ask them.

 

[mattr]

As far as the reasons behind the Firestudio and Digimax costing the same, I really don't know But I'd still be inclined to look at the Firestudio + Digimax setup anyway, as there is really no need for having firewire connectivity on all three units. Yes, you could possibly daisy-chain them through firewire, but I think the general consensus is that linking stuff through ADAT is a lot more stable and much less hit-and-miss. The Digimax units are designed to be used as 'expansion units' over ADAT and so they should perform this purpose well, plus they'll be compatible with other systems with ADAT.

I'm not such a big fan of Presonus gear though... I liked my Faderport and used a few Firepods last year which were ok, but the newer stuff seems quite cheaply constructed and simply the fact that none of those units have inbuilt power supplies - they use external power supplies with little flimsy DC jacks - annoys me to the point that I probably wouldn't buy one!

Another possibility would be Motu gear, which I love

896mk3 + 8pre + 8pre and you're sorted.

The 8pre is also a firewire interface on its own (so if you ever needed a quick portable rig you could always pull one out the rack to use with a laptop) but its been proven to work well in standalone mode in an ADAT expansion type situation and you would have no problems configuring it. This is where I'm not sure about the 3x Firestudio setup... I may be making this up, but you may find that they all have to be plugged in to Firewire order to run / and have some difficulty configuring them to act as 'slave' units.

 

[dastrick]

they use external power supplies with little flimsy DC jacks - annoys me to the point that I probably wouldn't buy one!

Another possibility would be Motu gear, which I love

896mk3 + 8pre + 8pre and you're sorted.

I've heard good stuff about MOTU. When I first got started I was trying to choose between MOTU and Presonus. I got such a good deal on a Firepod that I went Presonus. I've been happy with them so far. And I don't thing the DC jacks are flimsy. At least not on the Digimax & Firestudio. They actually improved them from the Firepods (which just plugged in...the ones now screw in to the unit).

 

[24tracks]

dastrick: Thanks for pointing that out. I'd been on their website under "recording" so didn't notice that monster. It appears to only be located when you view all products "by name".

That looks awesome, particularly because it could be used for live (it's purpose) but does that count as a "preamp" or any of that fancy jazz that so many people insist on putting between a vocalist and the DAW? Specifically, (foregoing personal preferences?) could I drop that on a desk, hook it up to Logic or some such, plug in mics, and have enough to get great sounding recordings, assuming I'm in a studio environment?

Of course, I'd flatten all the EQs, remove effects, etc, before recording to DAW... =)

 

[mattr]

Yup, that Studiolive would do everything you want it to and a bit more, which is why I would suggest it might be a bit of an overkill for your needs (and cost you a lot more in the process)... I certainly know it would be a waste if I got one, as I would just do as you said and ignore all the mixer aspect of it, keep all effects/EQ bypassed and just use it as an interface. Depends if you would ever use it in a live situation or need the mixer aspect... might make setting up monitor mixes a bit easier/quicker, though that doesn't mean you couldn't achieve exactly the same thing with some interfaces.

You say you want 'the fewest pieces of physical equipment', but I think you're overestimating the complexity of having a few interfaces chained together. There's nothing wrong with trying to look for one piece of gear which will do everything which as that mixer shows is possible to get, however I think the interface route offers better value for money, best versatility and expandability, etc.

You could have the 3 units (Motu, Presonus, whatever) racked up in a nice case with a power distribution strip at the top, ADAT cables permanently wired in at the back and XLR looms / XLR panels at the back. One firewire cable and one power cable in the back, and your mics plugged in to the XLRs. The rack would be easier to transport than something like that mixer (which you would need a case for anyway) and effectively act as your 'one piece of physical equipment'.

Ending up looking something like this, but you could have some XLR panels made for the back to have hard-wired in, etc...

I dunno, that would be my choice... well, its basically what I have at the moment.

I just like to keep my options open and be sure that gear I buy now could still be useful if I upgrade in the future or be versatile to swap around, etc, rather than buying into one very expensive piece of equipment that may become obsolete in a few years and not be upgradable/expandable. Buying individual units and linking them together in your own custom setup allows you to easily evolve the setup to match your needs as you get further into recording.

My $0.02

 

[24tracks]

mattr: A very valuable "two cents" you've got there. Thanks much for the feedback, and insight.

It would be worth it if I were going to use it live on a very regular basis, but I just don't foresee that happening in any justifiable way. =)

Monitoring is my next biggest concern. I've been really spoiled playing live with stuff by Aviom, getting a complete custom mix for everyone. I'd like to do that in the studio setting, but not exactly sure how to set that up myself. Suppose I'll start digging... =)

 

[dastrick]

My setup is very similar to Matt's. I've got a 4 space rack case. 1. Furman power conditioner 2. Headphone amp 3. Firestudio 4. Digimax. Everything stays wired & connected (except for the headphone amp...plugs are in the front). It's neat and like matt said, basically acts as one unit. Using the Firestudio's software router, I can route individual mixes to each of the 4 headphone amps outputs.

 

[mattr]

My setup is very similar to Matt's. I've got a 4 space rack case. 1. Furman power conditioner 2. Headphone amp 3. Firestudio 4. Digimax. Everything stays wired & connected (except for the headphone amp...plugs are in the front). It's neat and like matt said, basically acts as one unit. Using the Firestudio's software router, I can route individual mixes to each of the 4 headphone amps outputs.

That's not actually my setup, just one I quickly nicked off Flickr to show what I meant

Though mine is also very similar... power conditioner, Motu 896HD, Behringer ADA8000, headphone amp... and conveniently I can fit my laptop in the back of it when I'm going places


As for the monitoring thing... I don't think you'll find this an issue whatever what you go. If by Aviom you mean one of the systems where everyone on stage has a remote control to control their monitor mix... unfortunately I don't think you'll get that kind of thing at this level of consumer gear, but everyone would still be able to have their own custom monitor mix which would be controlled by shouting at whoever was sat at the computer

Though some of the cheaper ones lack it, all the interfaces you are looking at will have some kind of built-in zero-latency digital mixer for setting up monitor mixes that is controlled from software on the computer. Generally this will let you create several different monitor mixes (and send them to different outputs) from both the hardware inputs as well as outputs from your DAW. You route these monitor mixes to hardware outputs which you would then run into separate headphone amps for each monitor mix.

Some of the newer units (including the Motu 896mk3) also include realtime effects such as reverb and EQ that you can setup for the monitor mixes (without affecting the recorded signal) if you want to - you can't really do this by running it through your DAW as this will nearly always introduce unacceptable latency (unless you have a beast of a computer and a setup that is mighty solid at low buffer settings).

Remember that by adding these units with more inputs to your setup, they will often have more outputs as well which you can use to do more creative stuff like this. You may run in to limitations as to how many mixes you can set up on your interface though... my 896HD can only do 4 independent stereo mixes, though that's an older model.

If you really wanted remote control over the monitor mixes I'm sure you could buy some kind of system like the one you've been using, but another option would be to use the interfaces to set up separate mixes of, for example, drums, bass, guitars, vocals, etc, and feed these outputs into several cheap little mixers with headphone outputs... everyone then has their own little mixer and a reasonable level of control over what they're hearing. Personally I think this is a bit unnecessary though.

 

[Vinnydude]

I'm asking a similar question to the original post but from a Motu perspective.

I Own the 8pre, and am very happy with it and i'm going to be buying another one in a few weeks time when i get my pennies in the bank

BUT, why are so many people going for the mk828 + 8pre when you can daisy chain multiple 8pre's?

Another question, is it possible to use an 8pre as the master interface, with other 8pre's running off that on ADAt?

What are the benefits?! I'm so confused!!!

 

[dastrick]

To 24TRACKS:

Are you using this rig as a live rig to run FOH & record?

 

[crankz1]

@Vinnydude

The 828 offers more I/O 20 IN 22 OUT.
10 analog IN
8 ADAT IN
2 spdif IN

12 analog OUT
8 ADAT OUT
2 spdif OUT

As well as MIDI
However, there are only two preamps (the front two inputs) out of the 10 analog inputs.
Good thing for me really, as I don't don't see anything special with the MOTU preamps. And quite frankly, the front trim pots are crap! At least on my 828mkII anyway.

The 8pre is a convenient way of getting 8 mics to tracks.
Not everything needs a mic. Why pay for a preamp if you need line level inputs?
Or maybe one has paid a bunch of jack for a sweet rack of boutique preamps, that will have much more pleasing sonic characteristics and imprints than 16 MOTU preamps stacked up in a song....

Maybe if the 8pre were made by SSL, Neve or API ....

 

[dgatwood]

@
Or maybe one has paid a bunch of jack for a sweet rack of boutique preamps, that will have much more pleasing sonic characteristics and imprints than 16 MOTU preamps stacked up in a song....

That.

MOTU pres are decent, but with the 8Pre, I'm read that the preamps are in circuit even for the line-level inputs (with padding). For line-level signals (whether from external pres or keyboards or whatever), you're better off with the 828.

For 24 channel recording, you should also consider the 2408 and your choice of outboard pres....

 

[Vinnydude]

I guess that answers my question then

My initial setup is for recording bands, so i'm going to stick with a motu 8pre setup like i'd originally planned for now

I am really liking the look of that Presonus Desk though!

 

[dastrick]

I guess that answers my question then

My initial setup is for recording bands, so i'm going to stick with a motu 8pre setup like i'd originally planned for now

I am really liking the look of that Presonus Desk though!

I absolutely love the Presonus StudioLive. If you're doing live FOH & recording, or just FOH...it's pretty awesome. They also have a 16 channel that's about $2000. I almost pulled the trigger and bought one at the end of last year, but talked myself out of it (with help from my wife, of course).

 

[Vinnydude]

Well the 24 channel presonus is definatly an option for when i get my studio running, will be up against stiff competition from digidesign though. Its all about the money really!!!

Has anyone managed to get 4 units/32 channels running yet? I've only seen a guy on youtube do 32 channels and that was through lightpipe.

 

[mattr]

Has anyone managed to get 4 units/32 channels running yet? I've only seen a guy on youtube do 32 channels and that was through lightpipe.

There's your solution...

http://www.rme-audio.de/en_products_hdspe_raydat.php

 

[dastrick]

48 tracks

Here's 48 tracks with Presonus. I don't know about MOTU.

 

[mattr]

I don't know about MOTU.

Ah ha, I don't want to turn this into a petty Presonus vs Motu debate, but I will drop in with the answer to this

You could probably do a very similar thing with two 896mk3 chained via firewire, each with 8pres attached via ADAT.

A more stable setup would probably be based off their PCI interfaces... one PCI-424 card can connect to 4 of the interfaces (including the 24 i/o), giving a maximum total of 96 inputs and outputs for the card.

But yea, 96 tracks is a bit more than the 24 the OP wanted, or even the 32 Vinnydude asked about