Recording an E.P

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Common Dreads

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Hey guys, I am new to the forum and new to recording in general so go a bit easy on me :)

I am in a metalcore band with elements of trance on the synth. I am looking for some tips for Microphone placement as I am going to be recording all of the tracks in about a week, then when I start mixing I will be back on here asking plenty more questions.

I am a drummer and am fairly competent with micing up the drums however if you have any little secrets feel free to share.

If it is helpful this is my gear to work with:

Digidesign 003 Factory Rack
Apple MacBook Pro 15"
2 Yamaha HS80M monitors.
ProTools LE

Mics

6 SM57's
1 JTS NX-2 Bass Drum Microphone
2 Legacy Axis 8 Condenser Microphones.
1 SM58

I need tips on:

Guitar

Microphone placement in regards to stack amplifier (Pointing at one cone or in a centralized position).

Volume of amp while recording

EQ tips to make the guitar sound thick and have a nice presence.

Layering, yes/no?

Bass

DI or Miced up.

EQ Tips.

Vocals

Condenser or SM58?

Any tips on recording vocals would be helpful.

Synth

DI or miced up
 
Hi, CD. I can't say I've recorded anything metal, but here are a few things I keep in mind generally:

re guitar:

It's all about getting your sound, so if that sound is a recto stack balls out, then play it that way. Stack volume can be a bit tougher to deal with, but that's just about the neighbors bitching if you're not tracking the band live. I usually like a 57 up on a cone and a large condenser back a few feet. It really helps if you can get helping hands -- have someone playing while someone adjusts mic placement while you're listening in the control room.

re bass:

I usually go for a nice DI box plus mic. Try the kick mic. Sometimes 57s work, too.

re eq:

just make sure things don't compete for parts of the spectrum. If you like a low, boomy bass, make the kick snappier (or the reverse). Same with guitars. You don't want too much guitar rumbling with the bass. Cut some guitar lows and they'll sit together and sound more powerful than if they were stepping on each other and flabbing around.

re synth:

unless your amp is part of your synth sound (which I doubt), just DI it. You can run it through an amp simulator if you want amp grit.

good luck!
 
Jeez, this is a huge topic, man.

You already have quite a lot of recording gear - did you buy it specifically for this EP, or have you been recording for a while and decided now was the time to do the former?

I guess what I'm asking here are what are your recording goals. Is it just to produce a great sounding EP for your band, or is it because you enjoy the hobby, want to get better at it, and think it's fun to sit down and make an album?

If it's the former, honestly, your best bet is just to call up a local studio and book some time there. Metal is NOT an easy thing to record, especially if you have little to no prior recording experience, and the learning curve is pretty steep. If this is more about learning how to record, then right on, man, and I'll be happy to give you as much advice as I can. But, if at the end of the day you're less interested in recording than you are in having a record, have a pro do it for you - it's faster, easier, and you'll get better results than anything you're liable to do on your own for at least the next several years.
 
Firstly, take a look here

Now, I'll see what I can help you with :cool:

some tips for Microphone placement

Watch out for phase when using multiple mics on the same source (if you're not sure what phase is, give us a shout)

...start mixing I will be back on here asking plenty more questions.

Good ;)

I am a drummer and am fairly competent with micing up the drums however if you have any little secrets feel free to share.

Little secret? I'm Batman.

Guitar

Microphone placement in regards to stack amplifier (Pointing at one cone or in a centralized position).

The main rule in recording:
There are no rules. If it sounds good, it is good.
Mess around with placement until it sounds best to you. Tip: Center of the cone yields more high end, edge of the cone yields a darker tone.

Volume of amp while recording

The louder the amp, the more the cones will push in and out, this is generally a good thing, although I have sometimes gotten better results from turning the amp down to a fairly quiet level.

EQ tips to make the guitar sound thick and have a nice presence.

Fullness of guitars lays between 150Hz-500Hz, sweep the frequencies and see what sounds good. Make sure you don't boost too much in this area though (don't boost at all if it doesn't need it), as it can make your guitars sound very muddy and they can lack definition.

Presence of guitars is usually around 2kHz-4kHz. Boosting too much in this area can make the guitars very harsh or "fizzy" (on distorted guitars)

Layering, yes/no?

Yes, yes, yes. Use less distortion than you think you'd want, and layer them 2-4 times (or more if you need to), and pan them.

Usually its 2 different guitar parts, layered twice each. So let's say you have part 1A (1st part, 1st layer), and 1B (1st part, 2nd layer). Then you have part 2A and 2B. I'd pan 1A and 1B together, somewhere between 50-100% left, and I'd pan 2A and 2B somewhere between 50-100% right.

Don't just copy and paste the same guitar track and think you're layering. All it does is just make it louder. It doesn't thicken it out.

The result can be a lovely wall of guitars :D

Also, try to avoid recording with any FX on the guitar. They can be added later during mixdown, and give you more control. Although, if your pedals/amp have a specific sound that can't even closely be emulated by plug-ins etc, then track with it. I advise this because if you mess up the FX during the recording, you have to re-record to fix it.

And don't cut the mids from your guitars unless it needs it. The guitars are a mid-range instrument. Even though when it's being heard on its own it can sound cool to have a rumbling guitar with a shimmery high end, it'll get lost in the mix and get in the way. Hi-pass filter up to about 100/150Hz, and leave the mids intact (unless they need to be cut)

Bass

DI or Miced up.

Both, ideally. Sometimes you scrap one and use the other, or sometimes you blend the two. Get a good sound out of both during recording, and then decide what you want to do during mixdown.

Vocals

Condenser or SM58?

Test both and see which suits the singer the most. I tend to favour dynamics for heavier bands.

Any tips on recording vocals would be helpful.

Use a pop-shield, especially if using the condenser.
For heavier stuff, have the singer sing into the mic up-close.

Decide whether you want the guitars or vocals to take more of the spotlight in your mixes. The 2kHz-5kHz area is the "presence" range, and it should be favoured to whatever instrument (guitar/vocal/synth) you want most out front. Don't boost the same range on two different instruments (except for double-tracked guitars etc.). If you boost in one, cut the other

Synth

DI or miced up

What would you be micing? Same rules as bass, although I'd normally go with DI for synth.

Watch out for guitars, vocals, and synth all being mid-based instruments. Those 3 can really step on each others toes. You might even need to be ruthless and cut some stuff out.

Get back to us, and good luck on your EP, I wanna hear some stuff in the MP3 clinic soon :D

:drunk:
 
Jeez, this is a huge topic, man.

You already have quite a lot of recording gear - did you buy it specifically for this EP, or have you been recording for a while and decided now was the time to do the former?

I guess what I'm asking here are what are your recording goals. Is it just to produce a great sounding EP for your band, or is it because you enjoy the hobby, want to get better at it, and think it's fun to sit down and make an album?

If it's the former, honestly, your best bet is just to call up a local studio and book some time there. Metal is NOT an easy thing to record, especially if you have little to no prior recording experience, and the learning curve is pretty steep. If this is more about learning how to record, then right on, man, and I'll be happy to give you as much advice as I can. But, if at the end of the day you're less interested in recording than you are in having a record, have a pro do it for you - it's faster, easier, and you'll get better results than anything you're liable to do on your own for at least the next several years.

I am in year 12 and I am intending on doing sound technology at university. I am using this E.P to help out my band and to use in my portfolio. I mam VERY motivated about it and I want to do this for the rest of my life.

philbagg, Thanks for that gargantuan response :) very helpful there is only one thing I'm not entirely sure about. You talk a lot about the frequencies of the instruments and the way that they sit in with eachother and making sure that the sonic space is not crowded. This is a pretty new concept to me and I'm not real sure how to go about stripping certain frequencies from a signal. Are you talking about using a compressor or are you just talking about EQ'ing? sorry I'm new to this stuff haha.
 
philbagg, Thanks for that gargantuan response :) very helpful there is only one thing I'm not entirely sure about. You talk a lot about the frequencies of the instruments and the way that they sit in with eachother and making sure that the sonic space is not crowded. This is a pretty new concept to me and I'm not real sure how to go about stripping certain frequencies from a signal. Are you talking about using a compressor or are you just talking about EQ'ing? sorry I'm new to this stuff haha.

I'm talking about EQ.

Broad summary:
EQ=Frequencies
Compressor=Dynamics

I've never read this, but I've seen tons of people recommend it to people that are new to the game and have a lot of learning to do:
http://www.tweakheadz.com/guide.htm

(Apparently) It's a long read, but well worth it.
 
Thanks, I'll have a look at it and ask back here if I have any questions about it.
 
I am in year 12 and I am intending on doing sound technology at university. I am using this E.P to help out my band and to use in my portfolio. I mam VERY motivated about it and I want to do this for the rest of my life.

philbagg, Thanks for that gargantuan response :) very helpful there is only one thing I'm not entirely sure about. You talk a lot about the frequencies of the instruments and the way that they sit in with eachother and making sure that the sonic space is not crowded. This is a pretty new concept to me and I'm not real sure how to go about stripping certain frequencies from a signal. Are you talking about using a compressor or are you just talking about EQ'ing? sorry I'm new to this stuff haha.

Geez. Well, then, here we go...

Drums

Start with Greg L's thread on drum tuning, and then unless you're already getting kickass drum tones that you're super thrilled with, do a forum search for the Recorderman and Glyn Johns micing techniques. This is as a baseline - metal being metal you're probably going to want to augment the overheads with close mics on your toms, but this way you'll at least get a good, phase-coherent overhead picture. Also, experiment with overhead distance - IIRC, bringing the mics in closer increases the volume of your cymbals relative to your toms, and if you're adding tom close mics (and the placement doesn't fuck with your drummer) this is probably desirable.

Also, most modern metal has a lot of drum replacement - it's not uncommon to simply use a kick drum track (especially one with a lot of double bass) as a trigger and use it to trigger a sampled kick to get a much more even, machine-gun like kick response - try it both ways and if you can get a great kick sound acosutically then go nuts, but a sampled kick (and sometimes snare - hell, it's not uncommon to have the toms sampled and replaced as well) is kind of part of the metal sound.

EQ wise, metal is one of those few genres where you're not after an "organic" drum sound. You want a lot of click (Greg gets some of the best drum tones I've heard on this board and generally has his kick mic 6" off the beater, inside - you'll probably want to go a little closer), good bass "thump", and not much else. So, try a couple dB boost in the 6-8k range, scoop the living shit out of the midrange, and keep the low end - say, 80-100hz and below - where it is, maybe boost slightly if needed.

Also, you're probably going to want to gate the living shit out of everything so that when a drum isn't being hit, the track is silent.

Bass

The hardest part of a metal mix, IMO, especially with low-tuned instruments is getting the kick drum and the bass to sit well with each other. I've struggled forever with getting a good, punchy, full sounding bass, and the formula that worked for me was running through a Sansamp RBI preamp and splitting the signal, and recording a "clean" direct out and a moderately distorted "processed" out to seperate tracks. The unit actually produces some of the shittiest sounding, least desireable distortion I've ever heard, but I found that by low-passing the "clean" track and compressing it pretty heavily and then high-passing the "distorted" track and compressing it very lightly, then mixing to taste and experimenting with VERY slightly offsetting the clean signal to take advantage of natural phasing, I was able to get a pretty good sounding bass tone with enough body and girth from the clean sound, but good high end and crisp attacks from the distorted one. Certainly, this idea of layering clean and distorted versions of a single performance against each other is worth running with - the worst criticism I've gotten of bass tracked this way is that it sounds too much like, "hey, listen to my awesome bass tone!" for a metal album, and considering where I started I'm prepared to live with that.

For seperation between the bass and kick, you're going to want to look at two approaches. First, complimentary EQ. Figure out where the preponderance of energy in the low end of the kick is - pull up an EQ with a narrow Q and a large boost, and sweep it back and forth until you find where the most of the "thump" seems to be, and see if you can cut the bass a bit at that frequency and get it to work. Meanwhile, you're going to want to scoop out a lot of the mids and low-mids on the kick for that modern metal kick tone - that should leave you some room to bring the bass and guitars through a bit.

Second, see if you can find a compressor that allows you to use sidechain compression. I'm not sure what Pro Tools LE ships with, but I know Reaper's compressor will do this. It's a bit tricky to set up at first, but the idea is simple - you put a compressor on the bass guitar set heavily enough so, when triggered, there'll be a slight decrease in the output of the bass - it'll get squashed whenever it's triggered. Then, set it so it's triggered not by the bass guitar, but by the kick drum. Now, whenever there's a kick hit, the bass will momentarily get "smaller" allowing the kick to poke through.

Guitars

I'm a guitarist, so this is kind of my thing. First, there's a lot more to a good recorded tone than a great source tone, but it all begins there and if the sound of the amp isn't any good then you're never going to get a good tone on disc. General thoughts - you're going to want to do at LEAST two tracks of guitars, panned left and right. Layered guitars sound "bigger" and "gainier" than single ones do, so you're probably going to find out you'll want to cut your usual gain levels maybe 10-30% from where you'd be live.

Also, scooping your midrange sounds metal as fuck and all, but remember that in a mix a guitar is predominantly a midrange instrument - that scooped death metal tone sounds brutal alone, but add in the rumble of a bass guitar and the wash of high end from cymbals, and suddenly it vanishes. Furthermore, try complimentary EQ settings from your amp - for example, a bright, slightly scooped, relatively clean track on one side, and a dark, mid-heavy, more saturated one on the other. They may individually sound like shit, but played back in stereo often the whole is bigger than the sum of the parts.

EQ-wise, again, remember not to tread all over the bass. I'll often low pass guitars anywhere from 60hz (I play a 7 - most guys start at 80, which is about the fundamental of a low E) up to maybe 180 or so, depending on what I'm hearing back through the monitors. Let your bass guitar fill out the low end - there's enough down there with the bass and kick that you don't need the guitars to add much more down there. Similarly, I know a couple guys who advocate cutting or low-passing the high end - maybe 8k or so, to taste. I wouldn't advocate doing this ALL the time, but it;s certainly worth a try - if it sounds better, fuller, and less fizzy with those frequencies gone, great - if not, then undo it.

For mic placement, generally you're going to want to start with a single SM57 within 2" or less of the grill. I tend to like fairly dark tones so I tend to go a bit close to the edge of the speaker cone - this is all personal taste. One thing to keep in mind - while sweeping a mic back and forth, your ear is going to automatically tend to prefer the "brighter" positions to the "darker" ones because there's more going on up in the hgih end and it'll seem louder. That doesn't mean it's a better tone - dial in a position you like, record a quick 30-second clip, maybe double it if you're bold, then walk away, listen to something else, and come back and listen to your clip. More likely than not, the first few times you do this it'll sound thin, buzzy, and shrill. Over time, you'll figure out where you like a mic on a cab and positioning will get easier.

Vocals? Fuck it, I record instrumental rock. Talk to someone else. :D

Other thoughts

Really, so much of metal is about controlling dynamic response. Spend some time experimenting with a single repetitive sound - say, a sample of a kick drum hit, looped - and a compression plugin, and try to see how you can reshape it's response. Using a nearly instant attack and a relatively high threshold and rate to basically lop off just the transient, a lower threshold a few DB below the "body" of the kick and a slower attack to let the transient through unharmed but clamp down on the sustain of the kick (this is another way to work with the kick and the bass - making the kick as "clicky" as possible and trying to get rid of the boom), whatever. Just play, see what you can do to the sample, and pay attention. A guy I know with a bunch of pro metal releases under his belt who does excellent work often uses two or more compressors per track when doing drums, plus a tape sim as an added level of compression. It's an artform, and frankly I'm not good enough at it yet to tell you to do more than experiment and listen.
 
Oh, and find and memorize either SouthSIDE Glen or Massive Master's write-up on tracking levels and why you're probably tracking too hot. :)
 
Second, see if you can find a compressor that allows you to use sidechain compression. I'm not sure what Pro Tools LE ships with, but I know Reaper's compressor will do this. It's a bit tricky to set up at first, but the idea is simple - you put a compressor on the bass guitar set heavily enough so, when triggered, there'll be a slight decrease in the output of the bass - it'll get squashed whenever it's triggered. Then, set it so it's triggered not by the bass guitar, but by the kick drum. Now, whenever there's a kick hit, the bass will momentarily get "smaller" allowing the kick to poke through.

PT LE ships with the Compressor/Limiter Dyn 3, which has side-chain capabilities (and filters - which I find useful, although the side chain hasn't worked for me in a while :confused: maybe it's a PT 8 bug).

Just wondering, would it not be a better idea to set up an Expander/Gate on the bass, set the range to about 5/10dB, set the threshold as high as possible, and use the kick as the sidechain on that?

I'll often low pass guitars anywhere from 60hz

Dude, how can you hear anything? :confused:

(He means hi-pass :D )
 
And in case some of the hi pass lo pass stuff is confusing...
Hi Pass is really similar to lo cut...(cut the lows, let the highs pass)
Lo Pass is letting the lows pass, cut the highs.
:)

Think of mixing as a sonic jig saw puzzle. Sure your frequencies are gonna overlap and not fit perfectly into its "puzzle piece place" ;)
but there are frequencies that belong to a bass guitar (for instance) that don't jive with cymbals.

Know what I mean?
 
Think of mixing as a sonic jig saw puzzle. Sure your frequencies are gonna overlap and not fit perfectly into its "puzzle piece place" ;)
but there are frequencies that belong to a bass guitar (for instance) that don't jive with cymbals.

I like to boost 50Hz in my cymbals, really gives it that "stupid" sound

:D
 
"Metalcore with trance elements" and the user name "Common Dreads"?

Is that an Enter Shikari thing?
 
PT LE ships with the Compressor/Limiter Dyn 3, which has side-chain capabilities (and filters - which I find useful, although the side chain hasn't worked for me in a while :confused: maybe it's a PT 8 bug).

Just wondering, would it not be a better idea to set up an Expander/Gate on the bass, set the range to about 5/10dB, set the threshold as high as possible, and use the kick as the sidechain on that?



Dude, how can you hear anything? :confused:

(He means hi-pass :D )

Fuck, I always type low pass thinking hi-pass, and vice versa. :p It's because you use a high-pass to get rid of lows and vice versa, I think. :p

I'm not 100% sure what you're proposing - using a side-chain gate to actually mute the bass when the kick hits? I really don't think that'd work - the idea here is to pull it back a little bit, but not so much as to sound audibly different. You don't want it to sound like the bass is dropping out, exactly...
 
If you're recording in your 3x4m room with no treatment, I'd use a 58 instead of a condenser mic. The dynamic wont pick up as much of your bad room acoustics.
 
I'm not 100% sure what you're proposing - using a side-chain gate to actually mute the bass when the kick hits? I really don't think that'd work - the idea here is to pull it back a little bit, but not so much as to sound audibly different. You don't want it to sound like the bass is dropping out, exactly...

No :mad: :spank: :D

I said if you set the range parameter to -5dB/-10dB, it should duck the bass by said amount. The range being the amount of attenuation is applied to the signal once it drops below the threshold, which is why I suggested using as high a threshold as possible (so that it will always drop when triggered by the side chain).

Comprende? :drunk: :D
 
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