Recording Live drums???

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sockerdave7

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Ok, My band is starting to record and we are doing it all ourselves. We cannot get the drums to sound like a commercial sounding track. They sound a bit distant and not as full. We have a good quality set of 8 drum mics which are all mounted correctly. The set up runs through a 32 channel mixer and then the mixer output to pro tools 7.4. I set the mixer input faders to 0db on each individual track. I then adjust the output from the mixer to pro tools so that it is not peaking, but then it is too quiet. We mic our amps for the guitar parts and run the the same routing as out drum tracks and get a pretty close to commercial volume. On the guitars I add a little bit of gain to the track to pick up the amps a little better. I don't use any gating or compressing on the guitar tracks what so ever and they are still loud and clead, but I have tried using gating and compressing before and/or before tracking. So, I can only think of two "maybe" answers off the top of my head. One, would be to add a little gain to each track of the drums and the adust the mixer output or pro tools input. Or I leave both the Mixer input and outputs at 0db and only adjust the volume on pro tools.

We just want to achieve a nice modern/ boomy drum sounds as you would hear on any track today. A nice example would the the song "closer" by kings of leon, or a banging snare in "the pretender" by foo fighters.

All in all we just want our drums to be as clear and loud as any of today's music and then we can adjust from there.

Anything will be greatly appreciated

Thanks
ALTA VITA
 
Generally when recording drums they are multitracked. What you are doing I assume, your are running a final stereo track to protools. If your interface can record more than 2 channels, like 4 or 8, that would be a first step. Sending individual mic signals to different channels on your interface. Now to get that commercial sound, that takes ears and experience. Meaning getting good mic placement of mics, proper preamp setting. and in the mixing stage knowing your tools (eq compression) and when to use them. Hope this helps.:)
 
One problem I see is that all 8 tracks get converted to 2, because your mixer only has 2 outputs. Therefor if you want to eq something specific IE: snare; you can really do it because everything's blended into 2 tracks. Getting an audio interface could help, because atleast then you can control each input seperatly.
 
Sorry I edited my bad answer, I didn't read your post close enough. I hate when that happens :)

If you are just exporting a stereo track and the drums are too loud then you need to change the gain staging before you hit the mix output. Try running the drums to a group channel with a compressor to get the volume without clipping them.
 
If the drums are "too quiet" when you used proper gain staging, then turn everything else down. "Commercial levels" have nothing to do with your tracking levels...they don't even have anything to do with the next step, which is mixing. The commercial recordings you're comparing your songs to have been boosted at the mastering stage.

While tracking, you shouldn't be trying to get your level as loud as you can without peaking. You're using 24bit digital, you can leave a lot of headroom. Peaking at about -6 is fine.

While mixing, you shouldn't try to get your mix as loud as possible. You should be simply trying to make a good mix. This, too doesn't have to peaking anywhere near "0".

If you want to boost the volume of your song after you've mixed it down to 2 tracks, that's when it should happen, using limiters, etc...

(I'm simply trying to answer one of the OP's question....don't want to get into a debate about whether songs should be as loud as today's over-compressed, lifeless hits)
 
Last edited:
RAMI said:
(I'm simply trying to answer one of the OP's question....don't want to get into a debate about whether songs should be as loud as today's over-compressed, lifeless hits)
Click to expand...

oooo lets argue:D
 
I'm sorry I was unclear on my post. I do run every drum track seperately to my interface. On the mixer there are 8 output faders used for an interface. So on pro tools I have them all individually labeled and recorded. What would be some kinda starting point for preamp setting on the drum mics? Also, Should I raise the gain on the mixer first? I ask because I would adjust the track so that none of them would peak above zero on the mixer, or would it help do raise the gain and not worry about it peaking above zero on the mixer itself and just adjust on Pro Tools?

Another question to the the Mastering process brought up. What software or applications if any on pro tools would raise the overall volume of the final track if I do lower the volumes of everything else?

Thank you for the responses.
 
what interface are you using? I ask because I have a slight feeling you are running line level signals to preamps, bad idea dont do it. And to get good levels is relative to what you are recording. You dint want it recorded too low or too loud. Anyway to accomplish this is fine.

Dont bother yourself about mastering right now.
 
Our set up is the mic's run to a snake connected to the mixer and then the mixer has an 8 channel output that we use to run to pro tools. We don't have any preamps. We use the same set up for mic'ing the guitar amps and it sounds fine, loud, and full. Now, running that same set up for the Drums is completely different. The sound from them is a little lower and not as full. I really don't do any eq'ing before tracking either that way we can have the luxury of adjusting after. I don't see why would need any preamps for each individual drum mic if we don't use one for the guitar tracks.

We can get the drums to be louder and sound fuller, BUT they just end up peaking way into the red. So, I lower them to about -3db, but then they are just way to quiet and less full. while the other track are as loud as can be without peaking. That's what confuses me. So, it has to be something tracking stage.

I would compare our drum sound to a an older album of let's say Jimi Hendrix, or The doors where the drums kinda sound distant and small.

Thanks again, I'm trying to be as detailed as possilbe because I know it's hard to fix the problem without actually being there.
 
I think your screwing this up at the most basic level which is setting your gain...

BTW
You do have preamps. They are on your mixer. Generally speaking, if its an XLR input and it has a gain knob, thats your preamp. Note you only use ONE preamp for each mic, so if youre plugging into your mixer preamps and then out from the mixer to your interface, make sure youre plugging into a LINE IN on your interface, not a mic in.

Now lets see if this works:

First off, ignore protools for a minute. completely close it, unplug your mixer from your interface.


Set all of the FADERS on your mixer to 0. Not all the way down, I mean 0db. It should be labelled beside each fader, around 75 percent up from the bottom.

Now, start with the kick, have the drummer hit the kick loud over and over again.

While he's doing that, and turn up the GAIN (don't touch the fader), until you get a nice full clear, but not clipped sound out of the mixer on that channel. If your mixer has an input meter thats great. It may have a little LED for each channel that goes red when your clip the input. If you do, then turn it up til it turns red, then go back down a little bit and theres as loud as you can get it without distorting.

Monitor the output of the mixer with speakers or headphones, not with your computer.

Repeat with the rest of the drum mics, and for the overheads the gain on those two channels should be almost identical. You want them to be below clipping when the drummer is being his loudest (have him play the whole kit very loud)

Ok, now your mixer is set properly. NOW worry about hooking it up to the interface. You need to go from line outs on your mixer to line ins on your interface. This most likely means 1/4" to 1/4" (guitar cable size) from your 8 mixer outputs to the 8 interface inputs. DO NOT go from your mixer into another set of 8 XLR in preamps.

If your interface has a software control panel, make sure the inputs are set to 0db or whatever the default setting is.

Now if you are going into a 1/4" line in on your interface, there might still be a gain knob. NOW open protools, select track one, set it to record the input from channel one on your mixer, and arm it. Leave the protools "virtual mixer" fader at 0db, and turn up the gain on your interface until youre getting a nice signal from the mixer peaking between -18 and -6 (you dont have to get close to 0 in digital recording, you can normalize the tracks after recording).

If it stil sounds "quiet", then turn up your speakers! You may be mistaking a poor source/mic setup for a lack of volume. The signal can be very loud and still sound "weak" if youre using crappy mics or poor positioning, or if the drums are junk.



If none of this made sense, then just go to http://www.tweakheadz.com/guide.htm and read every page in the guide. Ya, every page.

Hope I helped.

-Adam
 
sockerdave7 said:
I set the mixer input faders to 0db on each individual track. I then adjust the output from the mixer to pro tools so that it is not peaking, but then it is too quiet.
Click to expand...

You lost me here. Quiet/loud has nothing to do with where the signal peaks. It has to do with the volume knob on your monitor.

I can have something peak at -20 and it will be loud enough to make ears bleed if I turn the monitor up.

I can have something peak at 0 and it will be quiet as a whisper if I turn the monitors down.




So how can a single instrument be too quiet? Turn up the monitors. It's not too quiet anymore.
 
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