Help please: tuning/set-up question

  • Thread starter Thread starter mattdee1
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mattdee1 said:
Do you think there is something in particular I should be checking on the bridge end?
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Essentially it just needs to be secured well. All the screws on the bridge and saddles need to be tight with the string not obstructed. There isn't a lot else to worry about.

Frankly it sounds to me as if this might have been a one off and haopened as a result of something that has now settled. Give the guitar a good look over a and try and spot anything that maybe loose. Other than that keep an eye on it and if it happens again we can look into other possible causes.

I can pretty much guarantee that it is not to do with your tuners. Despite what others are saying tuners just don't do that. If and when it does happen the first place to look is the nut and the second is the saddle. That is assuming that you have a minimum of two turns on each string. After that you need to look at the string itself if is it is only one string. If it is more than one string then the cause would likely be found elsewhere.
 
c7sus said:
I can't believe nobody has offered up the WD-40/talcum powder solution yet.
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Molybdenum! There's this stuff made for lubing motorcycle control cables called Bike Aid that works great when applied sparing to the nut. I have an old lap steel from the 50s and the strings were constantly getting caught at the net so when I'd change tunings, the "G" string would have a tendency to "wander off" because the tension wouldn't equalize properly between the neck and the headstock. A drop of Bike Aid, and the problem vanished.
 
LDS said:
Molybdenum! There's this stuff made for lubing motorcycle control cables called Bike Aid that works great when applied sparing to the nut. I have an old lap steel from the 50s and the strings were constantly getting caught at the net so when I'd change tunings, the "G" string would have a tendency to "wander off" because the tension wouldn't equalize properly between the neck and the headstock. A drop of Bike Aid, and the problem vanished.
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I use a slurry of Teflon grease and graphite. Moly grease is a petroleum product.
 
I know, but my point is that muttley is attempting to make a blanket statement, so if his assertion is to be correct, it has to be correct in all cases, including cases where it hasn't been wrapped enough times. Heck, it would have to be true if you hadn't wrapped it at all. He could amend it to say: "Strings don't slip if you wrap them enough times."

So yes, I can verify it when it hasn't been wrapped enough times.
 
thebigcheese said:
I know, but my point is that muttley is attempting to make a blanket statement, so if his assertion is to be correct, it has to be correct in all cases, including cases where it hasn't been wrapped enough times. Heck, it would have to be true if you hadn't wrapped it at all. He could amend it to say: "Strings don't slip if you wrap them enough times."

So yes, I can verify it when it hasn't been wrapped enough times.
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Complete bollox. Strings do not slip on the tuning post.

If you don't know how to wind a string on to a tuning post then you are not only wrong when you say that they can slip but you are also not qualified to answer the OP's question. Quit now.
 
muttley600 said:
Complete bollox. Strings do not slip on the tuning post.

If you don't know how to wind a string on to a tuning post then you are not only wrong when you say that they can slip but you are also not qualified to answer the OP's question. Quit now.
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And that, ggunn, is exactly my point. Muttley just wants to be obnoxious rather than actually help the OP. What if the OP doesn't have his strings wrapped correctly? In fact, if he is dropping the tuning, that would mean the strings would be wound around the post fewer times, so slippage is a good place to start looking.
 
thebigcheese said:
And that, ggunn, is exactly my point. Muttley just wants to be obnoxious rather than actually help the OP. What if the OP doesn't have his strings wrapped correctly? In fact, if he is dropping the tuning, that would mean the strings would be wound around the post fewer times, so slippage is a good place to start looking.
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You are beginning to make a tit of yourself. Just for the exercise go find a guitar and tune it to E on the bass string. Count how many windings on the post. Now de-tune to Eb and count them. Then wind that string as hard as you like and see if it slips any or snaps.:rolleyes:

My purpose in contributing to this thread is two fold. First to stop bad and incorrect information from gaining acceptance on this board and second to help the OP. The first I did by correcting your false statement and did it in a quite matter of fact manner. I couldn't give a monkeys toss whether you like that or not. Wrong information is wrong information and I'm not about to dance around your ego or sensibilities. If I hadn't helped out the OP in any way he wouldn't have asked questions directly of me would he.

The fact that you would rather see me be wrong than accept what is true speaks more of your attitude than mine but frankly I don't give a fuck about that either. Neither you or the OP are putting food on my table so you can go spin as far as I care.
 
thebigcheese said:
And that, ggunn, is exactly my point. Muttley just wants to be obnoxious rather than actually help the OP. What if the OP doesn't have his strings wrapped correctly? In fact, if he is dropping the tuning, that would mean the strings would be wound around the post fewer times, so slippage is a good place to start looking.
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I think you're missing the point. Muttley can be as obnoxious as he wants to be - he happens to be right. :D

To the OP - I'm not sure what exactly your problem is, but the one thing I'd had happen to me on occasion in the past is when restringing, having a string not properly seated in the bridge, such that when either stretching it out or, more rarely, some fairly spirited playing the string ball end could suddenly slip from wherever it was being hung up within the bridge to the point where it's supposed to be caught, suddenly dropping in pitch. The only problem here is more often than not you're talking a step, plus.

Have you changed strings since? It could just have been a shittily-would low E that came partially unwould or something, but again I'd expect a full break.

Either way, switching to 10s certainly wouldn't hurt matters - this is especially true of your power chording is pretty "spirited," as a heavy attack on light strings can definitely make them go sharp on the initial attack before settling back to pitch in the sustain, simply due to the "width" of the vibration.
 
You are probably right that detuning one half step won't make much difference, but my point is that it is physically possible for strings to slip, and I have had it happen to me several times when I didn't have it wound enough times. You can't make a blanket statement claiming it's impossible when it is possible. I doubt the OP's problem is slippage, but telling him it can never ever happen isn't going to help. You could say that it will never ever happen with the low E, because I can't imagine it happening there, or you could say it will never ever happen with proper windings.

Stating things matter-of-factly is very different from being just plain rude.
 
thebigcheese said:
You are probably right that detuning one half step won't make much difference, but my point is that it is physically possible for strings to slip, and I have had it happen to me several times when I didn't have it wound enough times. You can't make a blanket statement claiming it's impossible when it is possible. I doubt the OP's problem is slippage, but telling him it can never ever happen isn't going to help. You could say that it will never ever happen with the low E, because I can't imagine it happening there, or you could say it will never ever happen with proper windings.

Stating things matter-of-factly is very different from being just plain rude.
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Ok, then mentally edit mutt's comment to "it is impossible for a properly-installed guitar string to slip," if it makes you happier. Because that IS true - unless you don't know how to install strings, once it's on there it's not going anywhere. When used as they're designed, guitar strings don't slip on the tuning peg.

What you're arguing is sort of like saying "it's impossible for pigs to fly" isn't true, because maybe if you had a very big catapult... :p
 
ggunn said:
Keys/tuners don't slip, either, not even old cheap ones.
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You're wrong about this. I seen too many cheap assed guitars, like MIM strats and Epiphones, that would go flat everytime you play them for any length of time....no matter how much you stretch the strings. They will have no tuning stability whatsoever. You can put a decent set of tuners on them and they will have excellent tuning stability.

If the cheap tuners will not slip please explain why nothing more than a tuner swap will give the guitar tuning stability.
 
jimistone said:
You're wrong about this. I seen too many cheap assed guitars, like MIM strats and Epiphones, that would go flat everytime you play them for any length of time....no matter how much you stretch the strings. They will have no tuning stability whatsoever. You can put a decent set of tuners on them and they will have excellent tuning stability.

If the cheap tuners will not slip please explain why nothing more than a tuner swap will give the guitar tuning stability.
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Try this experiment on an old guitar that you don't care about:

Get a set of vise grips and clamp them down tightly on a tuning post. Clamp the neck of the guitar in a bench vise. Try to get the handle of the tuner to rotate by turning the post with the vise grips. Use as much leverage as you want; never mind that it's hundreds of times as much torque as a guitar string can exert. I'll wager that you'll rip the screws out, or split the wood, or break teeth off the pinion gear before that tuner handle will rotate.

Now, if you're talking about the tuning pegs on a plastic ukelele, then I yield. :D
 
ggunn said:
Try this experiment on an old guitar that you don't care about:

Get a set of vise grips and clamp them down tightly on a tuning post. Clamp the neck of the guitar in a bench vise. Try to get the handle of the tuner to rotate by turning the post with the vise grips. Use as much leverage as you want; never mind that it's hundreds of times as much torque as a guitar string can exert. I'll wager that you'll rip the screws out, or split the wood, or break teeth off the pinion gear before that tuner handle will rotate.

Now, if you're talking about the tuning pegs on a plastic ukelele, then I yield. :D
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Traditional uke tuners are not a worm gear arrangement..

I'm glad you fielded this though I was holding fire for a while.;)
 
ggunn said:
Try this experiment on an old guitar that you don't care about:

Get a set of vise grips and clamp them down tightly on a tuning post. Clamp the neck of the guitar in a bench vise. Try to get the handle of the tuner to rotate by turning the post with the vise grips. Use as much leverage as you want; never mind that it's hundreds of times as much torque as a guitar string can exert. I'll wager that you'll rip the screws out, or split the wood, or break teeth off the pinion gear before that tuner handle will rotate.

Now, if you're talking about the tuning pegs on a plastic ukelele, then I yield. :D
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I don't have to do that experiment....I have already done another experiment.
In my experiment I took a cheap ass guitar that wouldn't stay in tune and installed a good set of tuners.
Now it stays in tune.
 
jimistone said:
I don't have to do that experiment....I have already done another experiment.
In my experiment I took a cheap ass guitar that wouldn't stay in tune and installed a good set of tuners.
Now it stays in tune.
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Happy for you. The tuners didn't do it, though. :p
 
jimistone said:
I don't have to do that experiment....I have already done another experiment.
In my experiment I took a cheap ass guitar that wouldn't stay in tune and installed a good set of tuners.
Now it stays in tune.
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Will all due respect, that's not an experiment.

Poor quality tuners can be a bit wobbly or loose, they can feel cheap and have a bad ratio, but they won't slip, they can't.
 
If anyone has any mim fender tuners or epiphone ones that don't hold tune please feel free to send them to me for safe keeping.;)
 
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