AllenM
Member
Machine on the right is recording each track. I want to bounce
those 4 tracks to track 1 on the deck to the left.
Machine on the right is recording each track. I want to bounce
those 4 tracks to track 1 on the deck to the left.
T
The Ghost of FM
Banned
The hook up is the same as the connected deck, only you should should now make use of the 4 remaining tape/line ins on the mixer and the 4 extra program buss outs jacks on the mixer to feed the 4 ins on the other deck, then assign those now playing tracks to the program 1 buss, create your sub mix and copy it over.
With two 4 track decks though, you'd be much better off to do a stereo bounce and preserve whatever left to right panning you envisioned the music having and then you'll have 2 remaining tracks to add more parts. When I had two 4 track decks many moons ago, that's how I did it and sometimes went back and forth between the two decks 3 or 4 times to capture all the parts I wanted the song to have. At 15 IPS, you won't loose very much in the bounces/transfers either....though when I was doing that, I did also invest in the dbx noise reduction units to keep the tape hiss out of the equation.
Cheers!
With two 4 track decks though, you'd be much better off to do a stereo bounce and preserve whatever left to right panning you envisioned the music having and then you'll have 2 remaining tracks to add more parts. When I had two 4 track decks many moons ago, that's how I did it and sometimes went back and forth between the two decks 3 or 4 times to capture all the parts I wanted the song to have. At 15 IPS, you won't loose very much in the bounces/transfers either....though when I was doing that, I did also invest in the dbx noise reduction units to keep the tape hiss out of the equation.
Cheers!
jjones1700
Learning, always learning
I'm not familiar with those models, but I wouldn't see why it couldn't be done, depending on the configuration of the mixer.
Let me say though, that is one awesome little setup you have there!
Let me say though, that is one awesome little setup you have there!
AllenM
Member
I get super confused just thinking about how im going to do it...
T
The Ghost of FM
Banned
With the mixer you have, the M208, it should be a breeze as it gives you 8 inputs for line level/tape playback and it doubles the 4 program buss output jacks also giving you 8 recording outputs, so the hook-up is dead easy and after that, it's just a question of pushing the right buttons and setting up your mixes. When I used to do that same set-up that you have, I was working with only a 6 channel mixer and had a lot more re-patching to do as I didn't have enough inputs to keep everything connected...and on top of that, I also used to play additional live tracks during the bounce in order to cut down on the copy/generational losses which meant there was a lot more to keep track of. Your set-up makes it a breeze! Eventually though, I did move onto an 8 track deck and life became much easier at that point as I would fill up the first 6 tracks on that deck and then just do an internal stereo bounce to the remaining two tracks and then have 6 more tracks to play with for adding more parts.
The whole key to getting a handle on it all is to visualize the signal paths and understand what your mixer can do and then it becomes second nature to assemble very complex productions on relatively simple gear.
Cheers!
miroslav
Cosmic Cowboy
Get pencil and paper...draw out all your I/Os...the options will become clear.
And like the Ghost said...don't bounce 4-to-1...bounce 4-to-2 in a stereo L/R configuration.
That means you will have to premix those bounced 4-to-2 tracks EXACTLY how you think they should be in the final mix.
So when you record those last two tracks, you just blend them in with the 2-track stereo mix.
It will take a few 4-to-2 tries for you to figure out how you should mix them...but it's not a big deal.
Put the 4-track tape aside after you bounce it down to 2 tracks (don't record anything over it).
If you don't like how the final mix is blending...record/REMIX the 4-to-2 track bounce, while also playing back the OTHER 2 individual tracks.
Do you see....?
IOW...you can re-bounce those 4 tracks as many times as you like until you find the right blend.
Of course, you don't want to wear out the tape by doing it 30 times!!!
AllenM
Member
haha! I like the stereo idea. So I would record the 4 tracks. Send L1, L2
to the left deck L1. R3, R4 to the R3 on the deck to the left Then I would need to erase the tape on the right deck. and record my other tracks. How would I do this? I would need to monitor whats being played on the deck to the left. But do I enable SIMUL SYNC on the left recorder when I begin to record on the deck to the right?
to the left deck L1. R3, R4 to the R3 on the deck to the left Then I would need to erase the tape on the right deck. and record my other tracks. How would I do this? I would need to monitor whats being played on the deck to the left. But do I enable SIMUL SYNC on the left recorder when I begin to record on the deck to the right?
D
dodgeaspen
New member
Now you have the easy part figured out how are you going to get that black line with the arrow off your wall? My wife would kill me. HEHE
T
The Ghost of FM
Banned
You're not quite grabbing the concept completely yet.
You fill up the 4 tracks on one deck first.
Then you mix those track onto a stereo pair of tracks on the second deck.
As you record any track, you are also automatically erasing whatever was on the tape before it. You don't need to make a dedicated erase exercise.
When you're transferring tracks from one machine to the other, the deck that is playing must be in the REPRO mode as the play head will give you the full sound spectrum to transfer to the other machine.
You only use the sync mode when you're building up tracks on a single machine.
Cheers!
AllenM
Member
You're not quite grabbing the concept completely yet.
You fill up the 4 tracks on one deck first.
Then you mix those track onto a stereo pair of tracks on the second deck.
As you record any track, you are also automatically erasing whatever was on the tape before it. You don't need to make a dedicated erase exercise.
When you're transferring tracks from one machine to the other, the deck that is playing must be in the REPRO mode as the play head will give you the full sound spectrum to transfer to the other machine.
You only use the sync mode when you're building up tracks on a single machine.
Cheers!
I dont really understand what your talking about.
This is what im thinking
1 guitar
2 Ld guitar
3 drums
4 bass
Bounce to L,R on the machine to the left
Then I would like to record
1 keys
2 strings
3 vocals
4 vocals
and then bounce to the last L,R on the machine to the left.
How would I do this? and how would I get them to sync up properly?
M1Fanatic
Digital whaaa?
You'd have to stripe a track with SMPTE code and need a box to do that. I'm not at all sure how that's performed as I've never fooled with it before. You'd be using one of your available tracks though.
I understand what you are trying to do, but without a timecode lock it can't be done. You'll have to get those two stereo tracks back to the original machine and that only leaves two more tracks to record.
Now, after you've bounced them back to the original machine and have recorded two more instrument tracks, you can do yet a another bounce to the machine on the left, again, mixing in stereo to two tracks.
If you bounce that back in stereo to the machine on the right, you have two more tracks to record on. You're noise level by now may be unbearable and the lows will probably have turned to mud, but it's the only way you're going to get eight tracks on a four track machine using two machines.
Many years ago I used to do the same thing with a 4-track Portastudio and a stereo cassette deck.
I understand what you are trying to do, but without a timecode lock it can't be done. You'll have to get those two stereo tracks back to the original machine and that only leaves two more tracks to record.
Now, after you've bounced them back to the original machine and have recorded two more instrument tracks, you can do yet a another bounce to the machine on the left, again, mixing in stereo to two tracks.
If you bounce that back in stereo to the machine on the right, you have two more tracks to record on. You're noise level by now may be unbearable and the lows will probably have turned to mud, but it's the only way you're going to get eight tracks on a four track machine using two machines.
Many years ago I used to do the same thing with a 4-track Portastudio and a stereo cassette deck.
miroslav
Cosmic Cowboy
You can't.
Without having the two decks sync-locked via some synchronizer box that also controls both transports...it's not going to happen.
You can bounce once from M1 to M2...but you can then record on M2's empty two tracks and bounce all four of them (mixed down to 2) back to M1...then record two more on M1 and mixdown to M2, and so on and so on.
The bouncing only works once in any one direction.
Of course...after 2-3 bounces...those very first tracks are going to start really suffering from generation loss...so, it's limited process if you want to maintain some amount of quality.
But with a little planning, you can get a nice mix with 1-2 bounces.
Another option I use to use is to record my last couple of tracks on the fly, during the last bounce.
I would record my 4 rhythm tracks...mix/bounce to two on the other deck...then on the two empty tracks I would put my leads and ear candy...and then while mixing those 4 down to two I would simultaneously do my lead vocal and maybe even play acoustic or whatever.
It's a bit of a juggle, and you have to "pre-mix" as bounce...but that way you only do 2 bounces to those initial 4 rhythm tracks.
Experiment....you'll find an SOP that works for you.
AllenM
Member
Sounds great! whats a good sync box to use?
AllenM
Member
Also how the hell do they work?
T
The Ghost of FM
Banned
You can't use a synchronizer on your decks as neither of them have a servo transport system that can be externally controlled and locked to each other. Even if they they were newer and compatible, losing two of your 8 tracks to do it would be a waste of time. If you really need 8 tracks, just buy an 8 track deck and get on with your music.
Cheers!
Cheers!
miroslav
Cosmic Cowboy
Right....what Ghost said.
I didn't mean to lead you on with the sync box idea...I should have pointed out that in your case, even if you had one, you would still not be able to control the transports on those older decks.
I didn't mean to lead you on with the sync box idea...I should have pointed out that in your case, even if you had one, you would still not be able to control the transports on those older decks.
AllenM
Member
Alright well thanks!