Controlling Leakage and Maintaining a Live Vibe

[sammybobammy]

I have been playing bass with my band for the last year and now we are looking to record some of our tunes. Our sound is strongly dominated by interplay between the different instruments, guitar, bass vocal, drum set and djembe drum. This live sound is not something that I am willing to sacrifice for the sake of clarity.

I recently purchased a Tascam 2488 neo multitrack recorder to be able to simultaneously record our entire band on seperate tracks.

I am picking up too much bass and drum on the vocal mic. What is an inexpensive way to maintain line of sight between players but create greater isolation to the vocal mic.

At this point I can't imagine anything short of building a room with a window large enough to accomodate our vocalist with his acoustic to play in (which I cannot afford).

Just wondering if anyone has had a similar experience and has some reccomendations to either reduce the leakage or make the leakage we are getting more palateable.

Sam
www.ZooLieuTree.com

 

[shortedaman]

get a drum shield. such as this one. http://accessories.musiciansfriend.com/product/CalMil-Drum-Shield-4Piece-4-x-2?sku=446729

there are more expensive and better ones out there. or you could even build one yourself i suppose.

 

[mixsit]

..I am picking up too much bass and drum on the vocal mic. What is an inexpensive way to maintain line of sight between players but create greater isolation to the vocal mic.

At this point I can't imagine anything short of building a room with a window large enough to accomodate our vocalist with his acoustic to play in (which I cannot afford)..

That's vocal and acoustic guit in the same room? Seems the acoustic would be the bigger isolation problem.
Anywho, what voc mic, how's the room sizes, position options? You can do soft absorption on both sides, behind and from above w/o interfering with line of sight, and up to around head level which would also help the guitar.
Here in my setup drums are in 4' high by 6' long side gobos (still allows eye contact through the room), with low overhead clouds, a guitar on the far side, bass on the other side at the entry to the front room. There I can put vocal and/or second instrument and get reasonable control and isolation (and be included in line of sight).
But more often than not we'd be going for a ref vocal and be more concerned with keeping the drum track clean.

 

[sammybobammy]

The acoustic is an acoustic electric which we are running direct to varying degrees of success. (my guitarist likes the sound, I don't, but that is another issue) So for recording the acoustic electric there is currently no leakage on the guitar track from the drums. I did not consider the fact that If i built a room around our guitarist it would be causing all kinds of other issues with the vocals.

I will probably have to try putting up some false walls besides the old matress we put in front of the drums. I have heard that low frequency leakage will bend and distort around gobos. stupid question -gobos = false wall?

It is possible the idea of recording our whole band in one room as we usually play live will not yield material worthy of putting on an album or even a decent demo but it is what we know right now. I would like what we record to be representative of what someone might hear at one of our shows. It has always seemed to me that laying down seperate tracks would destroy the magic of creating live music.

I am definitely new at recording but I have some ideas I would like to try out. I would really like to try recording in an outdoor environment. Last summer we had practices primarily outside. We also played a number of venues outdoors where we recorded. I felt as if i could picture the landscape where we played after the fact from the vocal reverb. Maybe it was in my head but either way I liked the way it sounded.



www.ZooLieuTree.com

 

[TheChikenMaster]

Turn the bass down, change positions etc.....

 

[moresound]

Wait till spring and give it a shot outside just to try it for that live outdoors concert feel.

 

[mixsit]

Wait till spring and give it a shot outside just to try it for that live outdoors concert feel.

Now there's a nice big room!

Turn the bass down, change positions etc.....

That can be such a big and simple factor in this, especially working without proper' rooms. In my SOP it's bass and others at reasonable volumes, drums step up and play like their not in a small room- ding! Happy tracks.

 

[Paulie Jay]

I've never tried one of these before, so I can't attest to its effectiveness, but it must be cheaper than building a vocal booth

 

[RawDepth]

...stupid question -gobos = false wall?...

Gobo is short for "go between." Any free standing panel that reflects or absorbs can change the sound.

...It has always seemed to me that laying down seperate tracks would destroy the magic of creating live music...

That's a bunch of bologna. I've always believed that if the band has good musicians then they can play well in their sleep, in a tree, in a blizzard, or in a boxcar full of cattle. Looking at each other has nothing to do with it. Hear the beat, hear the rhythm, feel the groove, let the love flow forth. The right frame of mind is all it takes. Even if it is a free style jam, a little planning and rehearsal can go a long way to avoid mayhem.

Songs recorded separately can sound "live venue" by using the right effects.

 

[sammybobammy]

You might be right about needing to practice more, or I think in our case practice differently.

I think after a while the recordings could become an extension of what we create as a band and we can learn and explore more territory with what we create by tracking. Problem is at this point all members of our band are unexperienced with recording. Our songs really lack any good documentation at this point. We know where to start and everything else is up for grabs exceprt for the lyrics (well most of the time, sometimes the lyrics change a bit too). These problems coupled with opposition from different band members about recording everything seperate has kept us at the stage of waiting for one good take for everybody involved. I'm guessing as we get more familiar with recording practices we will likely evolve.

I want what we create as a band to remain centered around the live performance. I would feel like I have failed if I begin making music that we cannot reproduce in a live situation. We are not professional musicians, but I think the music we make has a good message and I enjoy making it.

 

[moresound]

Now there's a nice big room!.

The only problem is you can never fill it up !!!!!!!!

 

[snatchman]

Well, when all else fail, you can try using good gates at mix time.....I also agree that overdubs can sound "live" especially if done in the same time frame...( all musicians present and accounted for....IME)..Good luck

 

[quickmill]

That's a bunch of bologna. I've always believed that if the band has good musicians then they can play well in their sleep, in a tree, in a blizzard, or in a boxcar full of cattle. Looking at each other has nothing to do with it. Hear the beat, hear the rhythm, feel the groove, let the love flow forth. The right frame of mind is all it takes. Even if it is a free style jam, a little planning and rehearsal can go a long way to avoid mayhem.

Songs recorded separately can sound "live venue" by using the right effects.

I've always believed that a "good" engineer can record a live band in his sleep, in a tree, in a blizzard, etc. Plenty of real engineers have recorded live bands since the beginning of recording.

Everyone always passes it off on the musicians not being good enough without ever questioning if THEY'RE good enough. The fact is that looking at each other DOES have something to do with it for a lot of people and I'm not sure that makes them a bad musician. A band is what it is and if seperating them makes the music worse then they should be kept together. Throwing the blame on them for not being able to do it seperately is a cop out.