Advice on Electric Guitar sound

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JohnDude

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Hey Guys,

I've been working on a song and I'm trying to get some good electric guitar sounds from my amp. I digg the distortion that is on my Roland Cube 30 amp and I used it for the concept of this song. But My question is, how can I get those good, deep guitar tones without getting too muddy in the low-end?
I still can't figure out to make the Distorted guitars to fit nicely into the mix.
Here is the song I've been working on, it's still in concept mode so the rest isn't properly mixed yet, my focus was merely on the guitartones:



Tnx!

John
 
I think the guitar sounds very good, i had no problems with it... but, if you like a deeper sound the problem is the amp, the Cube 30 is too processed and kills many things that comes from the guitar itself like the wood, pickups, etc. I used that amp ones and a Fender sounds like an Ibanez (WTF). Maybe you are trying to get the sound of those guitar players like Sambora (his sound comes to mind). Well, you will need a tube amp to get that deep, clean and bright sound, Marshall's got great tones for that.

Good Riff btw.
 
Hey Tnx zero00 for your response & compliment, greatly appreciated!
Lately I've been looking for a new amp and I found that the Marshall amps are indeed the best sound-signature I'm looking for, just like you said!
I tried the Marshall JVM410H with a Marshall cabinet and I just loved the smoothness and the full,rich sound without the harshness and/or uglyness.
I think my wallet is going to become a bit lighter this year.:P
 
I agree with zero--I thought the guitar tone worked and was good for this style. I feel like some of the other sound issues (fullness) would be filled out once the bass and drums get mixed in there...or that marshall
 
Try dialing down the distortion gain a bit to see if it allows more of the gtr sound to come through. I'm a hard rock/metal fan so I'm not saying this b/c I have anything against distortion. But what sounds good w/ gtr alone usually gets messy in the mix and dialing down seems to be cardinal mixing rule.

If that doesn't take care of it all, apply a low shelf EQ to cut some of the lower end out, and even removing the lowest end (about 100 Hz and lower). If still not satisfied, then try adding subtle boosts at the high end to let a little more air in (+1 or 2 dB). For both, mess with shifting the center freq of you cuts/boosts to find the sweet spots. Obviously, I'm referring to making these changes on the individual guitar track(s).

If that doesn't work, you may just need to find a nice tube amp and distortion pedal. But I actually think the sound is not bad at all and should certainly be workable.

Kerrio
 
Another trick is to use a parametric EQ, create a narrow Q and high boost (or cut) and shift around to find areas that sound more or less like the problem quality of the sound you don't like (or really do like), then boost or cut that area with a broader Q and more subtle dB change. You can do this multiple times in multiple areas, but don't think that EQing can give an entire gtr sound makeover. You can work with your sound but you can't replace it w/o re-recording.

Kerrio
 
Tnx adamvelvetu and kerriobrown!
Got some usefull tips I can't wait to try out! You got point there kerriobrown about the fact that you first have to get the source to be good and workable ( re-recording 'till it sounds good), instead of just trying to EQ your not so well recorded guitar-part to its limits.
 
I think the guitar tone sounds pretty good in this context. But I wouldn't go any further with it until I finished up the "context." In other words, you can't really know if the guitar tone works or not until you hear it in a tighter mix. And by your own admission, this mix is rough. After you bring the drums and bass up where they belong relative to the guitars, you'll know more what you need--or don't need.

One of the hardest lessons for me to learn (and I'm a guitar player) was that a guitar track that sounds good by itself doesn't necessarily sound good in a mix, and conversely, when it sounds good in the mix it might not sound good by itself. And with the guits as loud as they are in this rough mix, it's almost as though they're solo'd. So I'd focus on the rest of mix and see how they sound--you might be closer than you think.
 
Hey guys,

Here's a quick update; I've finnished the composition of the song and I've recorded the other instruments. The only thing that's going to be re-done, due some timing issues:P, are the drums.



Do you guys have any comments or tips regarding the mix and overall sound?

Anyway, tnx for listening!

John
 
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onestu3 said:
Like a great man once said "You can't polish a turd."
Click to expand...

Mythbusters says otherwise lol

red_dorodango.jpg


Also, I like the tone you're getting from your guitar. I would bring up the drums a bit more. That's my preference and opinion though. I like having drums and bass very pronounced in my mixes.
 
Hmm... I listened to the whole thing, and quite frankly, I didn't think much was bad about it.

The guitars sounded great, fat, full, and extended.... In fact, that might be the only thing wrong with it, in my opinion. The guitars seemed to occupy the entire space of the stereo spectrum. Gotta make room for other instruments. As soon as you add vocals to the mix, depending on the timbre of the voice, you're almost assuredly going to have to EQ the distorted guitars to allow space for the vocals...

One trick I learned by accident is that electric guitars really don't seem to need very much space to do their job. I got lucky and learned this by buying a microphone which everyone seemed to rave about (the Trion 7000 dual-element ribbon)... When I got it and hooked it up, I thought it sounded like utter crap. Honestly, I thought I was gonna have to eat it because I bought it on e-bay. The frequency response for the trion looks like a frown. The highs and lows are all but totally lost - and when I tried to record vocals, I verified it. Nothing there in the high or low end. Yet, the reviews for it on electric guitars were pretty consistently amazing... So

I used it on a guitar cab. Holy cow! The sound wasn't anything stellar by itself, but wow, when I put it in a mix, those guitars just sit right in exactly where they needed to be without any alteration, EQ, compression, or anything at all. They just - fit.

So... I guess the moral of this story is - make sure everything has its space. Like Whitestrat said - just because it sounds good alone, doesn't mean it'll sit well in a mix.

I'd recommend EQing out the highs and low-lows on the guitars (although the lows don't seem to be giving me any problems with your mix)....

Anyway... I'm no expert. Just learning as I go along, but every mix I've used the guitar cab / Trion 7000 on, people have loved the guitar sound.

Engage taking with salt. :)
 
I listened to both mixes and the guitar tone sounds OK to me. I couldn't make the kick-drum out though. The snare sounds OK but the kit on the whole seems to need a brighter EQ.

Joey :):)
 
bilbomarks said:
Mythbusters says otherwise lol

red_dorodango.jpg


Also, I like the tone you're getting from your guitar. I would bring up the drums a bit more. That's my preference and opinion though. I like having drums and bass very pronounced in my mixes.
Click to expand...

Hey bilbomarks,

I will see what I can do to bring the drums more up-front, actually, PoeticIntensity recommended I should lower/ soften the guitarparts, I guess it will achieve the same effect!:)

PoeticIntensity said:
Hmm... I listened to the whole thing, and quite frankly, I didn't think much was bad about it.

The guitars sounded great, fat, full, and extended.... In fact, that might be the only thing wrong with it, in my opinion. The guitars seemed to occupy the entire space of the stereo spectrum. Gotta make room for other instruments. As soon as you add vocals to the mix, depending on the timbre of the voice, you're almost assuredly going to have to EQ the distorted guitars to allow space for the vocals...

One trick I learned by accident is that electric guitars really don't seem to need very much space to do their job. I got lucky and learned this by buying a microphone which everyone seemed to rave about (the Trion 7000 dual-element ribbon)... When I got it and hooked it up, I thought it sounded like utter crap. Honestly, I thought I was gonna have to eat it because I bought it on e-bay. The frequency response for the trion looks like a frown. The highs and lows are all but totally lost - and when I tried to record vocals, I verified it. Nothing there in the high or low end. Yet, the reviews for it on electric guitars were pretty consistently amazing... So

I used it on a guitar cab. Holy cow! The sound wasn't anything stellar by itself, but wow, when I put it in a mix, those guitars just sit right in exactly where they needed to be without any alteration, EQ, compression, or anything at all. They just - fit.

So... I guess the moral of this story is - make sure everything has its space. Like Whitestrat said - just because it sounds good alone, doesn't mean it'll sit well in a mix.

I'd recommend EQing out the highs and low-lows on the guitars (although the lows don't seem to be giving me any problems with your mix)....

Anyway... I'm no expert. Just learning as I go along, but every mix I've used the guitar cab / Trion 7000 on, people have loved the guitar sound.

Engage taking with salt. :)
Click to expand...

Hey PoeticIntensity,

Awesome comment! Got some really good advice from this. You are right about the guitars, recently I listened to some rock songs just to see how the levels of the distorted guitars are compared to the song and vocals.
I came to realize that the guitars are at a very low level ( like the opposide of my mix:P) , but oh so in your face.
I'll try to use that concept on my mix, tnx!

joeym said:
I listened to both mixes and the guitar tone sounds OK to me. I couldn't make the kick-drum out though. The snare sounds OK but the kit on the whole seems to need a brighter EQ.

Joey :):)
Click to expand...

Hey Joey,

the drums could use some highs, I'll see if increasing the gain of the OH-tracks could give more highs to the drums!
The kickdrum is recorded with two mics, A AKG D112 3-4 inches in the kickhole and a Rode Nt1-a in front of a 3 foot kickdrum tunnel made of foam, where the opening is covered by another piece of foam ( so the Rode is trapped inside at the end of the kicktunnel).
Do you mean that I should give the kick more click to get identified in the mix, or don't you hear the kick at all, in combination with the bassguitar?

John
 
Basically you need to find the right frequencies for the different instruments. The mix lacks lots of low end for example. Raising kick and bass some in the 45 to 150 Hz would give it more body. Some compression on the kit maybe.....you just have to experiment I guess. But the drums on the whole have to be louder. It almost seems to me that you started with the guitars first when you mixed. Try to get your drumkit together first, don't go over -15 db. Then raise the guitar faders to a satrisfactory level where you can still hear the kit properly and then raise the bass to fill up the space in the lows and mids. Try it out and see how that works.
 
hmm, id add more verb to the kick, the guitar playing octave chordes i would put higher in the mix, with one track of each (im assuming you've doubled them) in each side.
my 2cents :P

awesome song though really, good composition
 
Hey guys,

I was going to post the final mixdown but i realized that I already did!:P This song was one of three songs that my brother used for his admission for the Conservatoire, unfortunately he wasn't admitted ( he was sixth place but only the top 5 are put through ).
But he's going to try next year, so hopfully he'll be in the top 5.

John

joeym said:
Basically you need to find the right frequencies for the different instruments. The mix lacks lots of low end for example. Raising kick and bass some in the 45 to 150 Hz would give it more body. Some compression on the kit maybe.....you just have to experiment I guess. But the drums on the whole have to be louder. It almost seems to me that you started with the guitars first when you mixed. Try to get your drumkit together first, don't go over -15 db. Then raise the guitar faders to a satrisfactory level where you can still hear the kit properly and then raise the bass to fill up the space in the lows and mids. Try it out and see how that works.
Click to expand...

Tnx, this was a big help!

zuluEars said:
hmm, id add more verb to the kick, the guitar playing octave chordes i would put higher in the mix, with one track of each (im assuming you've doubled them) in each side.
my 2cents :P

awesome song though really, good composition
Click to expand...

Tnx zuluEars, appriciate your comment.
 
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I agree with a lot of what's been said. The tones I think you like are those of analog tube amps.

I'll add that it sounds like you have an acoustic 12 string sort of "underneath" the electric. To me those sounds didn't blend well to me. Not a huge dislike - I'd just rather hear the distorted guitar alone.
 
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