Compression Pedals

[Walt-Dogg]

I'm using a Boss CF-3 Compression/Sustainer with my Sunn Concert Lead head as a boost on top of the distortion to get a more gainy sound as I don't like using distortion pedals. But the sound isn't exactly right, there's some weird decay I guess to call it, even with the sustain all the way it decays quick and very scratchily. Is the pedal messed up, or is that just what the pedal does? Either way it's annoying me, and I have money to replace it but I'm considering getting a different pedal to replace it. One that is more effective as a boost maybe?

 

[starbuck26]

I'm using a Boss CF-3 Compression/Sustainer with my Sunn Concert Lead head as a boost on top of the distortion to get a more gainy sound as I don't like using distortion pedals. But the sound isn't exactly right, there's some weird decay I guess to call it, even with the sustain all the way it decays quick and very scratchily. Is the pedal messed up, or is that just what the pedal does? Either way it's annoying me, and I have money to replace it but I'm considering getting a different pedal to replace it. One that is more effective as a boost maybe?

A compression pedal, while it can be used as a moderate boost, is still a compression pedal. I can't make any comment on whether your Boss pedal is fucked up or not without hearing it, but no matter. If you don't like distortion pedals you can try:

1) Clean Boost pedals. Specifically I'm thinking of the MXR Micro Amp (great pedal), Fulltone Fat Boost or the Catalinbread Super Chili Picoso or about a million others. The Strokes all play MXR Micro amps straight into their amps. Minimalist, but badass tone.

2) An Overdrive pedal might do the trick. Try a Fulltone OCD and use your guitar's volume knob to dial in the perfect dirty.

and 3) if you are set on using a compressor/sustainer to give you your gain (I personally think this is the ABSOLUTE WRONG way to go), you'd be better served by replacing that Boss piece of shit with something like the Pigtronix Philosopher's Tone, which has a gain knobby built into it. It's capable of adding some grit to the signal.

Some people will call me out, but I think all Boss pedals are total shit. That little yellow OD-1 is sort of ok, but the rest can lick my balls. You can pretty much find a handmade, higher quality pedal to replace any of them at any price point.

 

[Walt-Dogg]

...Boss pedals are total shit...

I can agree to that, I hate Boss, in fact I hate pedals. But it's impossible to get the tone I want without some sort of compressor or boost.

The only reason I want to use a compressor or maybe a boost over an overdrive or distortion is because I'm wary of getting too much of a heavy distortion whether it's toned down on the pedal or not.

But thanks, I'll look into some of those the next time I'm at Guitar Center.

 

[Outlaws]

http://homerecording.com/bbs/newreply.php?do=newreply&noquote=1&p=3290771

I like using compression pedals for sustain, and even a bit of distortion. I like the MXR SuperComp, and once its on I don't like to turn it off. But I don't think Boss pedals are terrible to the point that if you are not getting close to the sound you want that a different comp will save the day. If its in the ballpark then maybe.

I am not familiar with Sunn amps at all, so I can't comment on that. What guitar and pickups are you using btw?

 

[Walt-Dogg]

I like using compression pedals for sustain, and even a bit of distortion. I like the MXR SuperComp, and once its on I don't like to turn it off. But I don't think Boss pedals are terrible to the point that if you are not getting close to the sound you want that a different comp will save the day. If its in the ballpark then maybe.

I am not familiar with Sunn amps at all, so I can't comment on that. What guitar and pickups are you using btw?

I'm looking into the MXR SuperComp. It's not that the Boss pedal isn't giving me the sound I want, it's just that it's not working properly, I don't like Boss and I have the money to buy a new comp or maybe a boost, but the sustain on a comp pedal is a plus.

As for Sunn amps, they take pedals quite well and my Sunn Concert Lead seems to have a very similar clean tone to my Fender Super Reverb. The pickups are single-coil Fender Texas Specials.

 

[Big Kenny]

carl martin has a bunch of fat gain in their compressor, the keeley is nice too, the tone press (barber) also can punch things up

 

[starbuck26]

I like the MXR SuperComp, and once its on I don't like to turn it off.

I hear this kind of statement when talking backstage at gigs, and it usually sends up a red flag in my head that the kid I'm talking to will likely have some shit tone. I'm not trying to be a dick by saying that, but it's actually how I feel. Sometimes im surprised.

What you're saying is akin to a painter saying "Once I found the red paint, man, I wanted to paint everything red."

A compression pedal has one prescribed use. That use is to make notes sustain longer. But it has other operational uses as well, but these are secondary to that lone prescribed use. the fact that it has a volume knob on it means that you are able to use it as a clean boost... to some degree. the doctor could prescribe me valium to kill my pain. it'll make me slightly constipated. but that doesn't mean he should prescribe valium because i'm having diarrhea. you know?

First off, if you leave the fucker on the whole time there ain't no difference between boosted tone and not boosted... it's all the same. No contrast. If everything is loud nothing is loud. If everything is quiet nothing is quiet. Second: Take the simplest device... the MXR Dynacomp (Volume, Sensitivity). Twist the knobs and listen. If you roll that volume up above 3'oclock, and leave he sensitivity around 8-9 you're still getting some pretty solid compression.

The trade off is this. A compression pedal will give you long, singing sustain. But then if you leave that sucker on and start hammering some really staccato riffs, you're going to be unnecessarily HAMMERING the attack, the bite, the 'cut' off your riffs. If you can't hear that you need to listen to compressors on and off until you can.

Now, a BOOST pedal won't give you added sustain (most of the time, if you yank it and put a single coil in front of your amp you probably will) but it will give you clean loudness without hammering the fuck out of your pick attack.

They both have very distinct uses. I wouldn't play a gig without either of them. In a set of about 45 minutes-1hr... i'd say each is on about 10% of the time.

 

[acidrock]

I like using compression pedals for sustain, and even a bit of distortion. I like the MXR SuperComp, and once its on I don't like to turn it off.

That's exactly how I use mine.You do get a bit of distortion depending on how you use the level.A cranked amp is compressed and a compressor pedal just gets you closer to that sound without having to keep it at 10.


I have four compressor pedals,one of them being the CS3 and of the four the Boss gives me the most sustain,but the Dynacomp just has that sound.I have a Danelectro Surf and Turf and it's sounds great,but it's super cheaply made.Lastly I have a DOD Milkbox and I really haven't found a niche for it yet,it never gets used.

Compressors are nice on clean signals too.

 

[Lt. Bob]

another vote for a clean boost.
Personally, I've never found a compression pedal I liked.
I've found a few that I didn't hate quite as much but all compression pedals screw with the attack to some degree and I absolutely loath that.
My personal opinion and taste of course so your mileage may vary.

 

[ranjam]

I hear this kind of statement when talking backstage at gigs, and it usually sends up a red flag in my head that the kid I'm talking to will likely have some shit tone. I'm not trying to be a dick by saying that, but it's actually how I feel. Sometimes im surprised.

What you're saying is akin to a painter saying "Once I found the red paint, man, I wanted to paint everything red."

What I'm saying is akin to thinking you need to get out more, and listen to more kinds of music. And I'm not trying to be a dick by saying that. Funk players, and chicken pickin' players often leave their compressor on. I doubt Nile Rogers or Johnny Hiland have 'shit' tone, even by your standards. And Thomas Gainsborough got pretty famous with one painting I seem to recall using mostly blue paint.
If I was Walter, I'd dump the Sunn, and get a different amplifier. And then toss the CS-3. Without a Keeley mod, they're simply bad compression pedals. With a Keeley mod, they're elevated to being mediocre compression pedals. The Tone Press leaves any Boss compressor it its wake. There's others, just as there's more than one type of ice cream out there, so try them. You'll wonder why you thought the CS-3 was worth buying at all. I hope the CF-3 was a typo; there is no CF-3 that I'm aware of.
Oh, how much Reverb are you using? Just a thought. Still, try a different amp, one with more grit to start with, get a better compressor, and swallow your pride and try a Keeley Blues Driver. You could end up with a tone like this; https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b_KuQ1uXYyY
That's it. Flame suit.........................................................................................ON!!!!!

 

[Outlaws]

I hear this kind of statement when talking backstage at gigs, and it usually sends up a red flag in my head that the kid I'm talking to will likely have some shit tone. I'm not trying to be a dick by saying that, but it's actually how I feel. Sometimes im surprised.

What you're saying is akin to a painter saying "Once I found the red paint, man, I wanted to paint everything red."

A compression pedal has one prescribed use. That use is to make notes sustain longer.

That is far from the truth. Sustain is but one factor you can help improve, but compressions main reason for being is to wrangle the freq spectrum into a more useful range...if it is useful to you or not is immaterial to anyone but you.

You do not have to over due it. Everything in moderation.

How about a single channel amp? That is like a painter using the same color too. ...but it isn't because we all know you can still goose out many sounds from that basic palette.

I am not talking about squashing the sound into a flat line and calling it a day.
Also you do not have to boost your tone when using it. Its an option, but its only an option. The level control is like all other level controls on all pedals....to match the output to the level you want. Be it the same, less, or more.

 

[ggunn]

I have a CS-3, and it's not great, but it's OK. I'm using it on bass at the moment, but I've used it for guitar as well. It can squash your sound if you set it that way, but you've got some control over that. The only time I have had anything like the problem you are describing was with a very noisy guitar and the volume and sustain set very high. As a note would decay the signal to noise ratio on the input would drop off and the compressor would start to pass the noise boosted by the amplification stage on the front end. Garbage in, garbage out.

Compression is not volume boost; it's dynamic volume attenuation. The stuff you hear during the decay of a note is actually the compressor turning itself off. Also, if you use a compression pedal (IMO) it should be the first thing in your signal chain and not in an effects loop, otherwise you'll hear the noise floor generated by whatever is in front of it going up and down as notes start and decay.

 

[TelePaul]

I can agree to that, I hate Boss, in fact I hate pedals. But it's impossible to get the tone I want without some sort of compressor or boost.

The only reason I want to use a compressor or maybe a boost over an overdrive or distortion is because I'm wary of getting too much of a heavy distortion whether it's toned down on the pedal or not.

But thanks, I'll look into some of those the next time I'm at Guitar Center.

Hmmmmm. I'd be reluctant to rubbish a particular brand of pedal or pedals generally because your compressor isn't acting in a gain-staging capacity; that's not it's purpose. Compressors are actually pretty complex and shouldn't be lumped in with boosts, overdrives, distortions or fuzz; as it happens, distortion effects are likely to compress your signal anyway. I have the CS3 and it works great for what it is. It sounds like you need a ts9 set with the level at full and gain at nil.

 

[Walt-Dogg]

Well it turns out the battery in my CS-3 was going bad. But either way I am still interested in getting a different compression/sustainer or boost pedal.

For clarity, if anyone is familiar with Sunn Concert Leads I have the distortion (set at 10) and the boost on, using the normal input with the "brite" switch off, the trebble control is set at 8.5, the bass and mid controls are set at 7.5. With my guitar, like I said, a Strat with Texas-Special pickups, mainly using the bridge pickup. And for the CS-3 I have the volume, sustain and attack maxed out and the tone around 1 or 2 o'clock, and I just leave it on.

I'm not going for anything really except a very powerful sound as I'm playing mainly grunge-y (Pissed Jeans) and psychedelic punk (Annihilation Time, Rabies) type stuff.

Hmmmmm. I'd be reluctant to rubbish a particular brand of pedal or pedals generally because your compressor isn't acting in a gain-staging capacity; that's not it's purpose. Compressors are actually pretty complex and shouldn't be lumped in with boosts, overdrives, distortions or fuzz; as it happens, distortion effects are likely to compress your signal anyway. I have the CS3 and it works great for what it is. It sounds like you need a ts9 set with the level at full and gain at nil.

I'm not casting out Boss just for that, I just don't like Boss pedals really. I got the CS-3 in a trade and thought I'd give it a shot a boost, and it's not too bad. I'm just not sure about using a compressor as a boost. You mean an Ibanez Tube Screamer? I've been looking at those, I'm not too sure about it though, because I don't want to really have to zero out anything, I'm more into maxing out or being about to find a setting inbetween 3 and 7, unless i can just max it out.

Note: The amp feeds back quite quickly without the compressor on as I turn the volume up with the distortion and boost on. So I use the compressor as a boost or I guess you could call it a pre-amp to avoid having to turn the volume on the amp up to get more volume and gain without feedback.

 

[ranjam]

I have a CS-3, and it's not great, but it's OK.

According to you and 9,706,120 other people. We can't all be wrong.

I'm using it on bass at the moment, but I've used it for guitar as well.

It's the worst for bass. Do you know which of a soldering iron to hold?
="http://www.ovnilab.com/articles/cs3modding.shtml"

 

[starbuck26]

What I'm saying is akin to thinking you need to get out more, and listen to more kinds of music. And I'm not trying to be a dick by saying that. Funk players, and chicken pickin' players often leave their compressor on. I doubt Nile Rogers or Johnny Hiland have 'shit' tone, even by your standards. And Thomas Gainsborough got pretty famous with one painting I seem to recall using mostly blue paint.

Forgive me. I'm talking about the role of a compression pedal in rock and roll. I have no idea what funk players do. Nor do i give a shit. I can't help what music i like. I just like it. Johnny Hiland does nothing for me either.

I'm not going for anything really except a very powerful sound as I'm playing mainly grunge-y (Pissed Jeans) and psychedelic punk (Annihilation Time, Rabies) type stuff.

That's what he's actually going for. So... yeah... don't leave it on all the time.

From what he's talking about though, he needs a boost pedal. plain and simple.

Now for some background reading:

Wait. Lets back up here. Try this: Take a guitar amp that has separate clean and dirty channels with gain controls that feed a master volume output knobbie. Set the 'pre' channels to about the same o'clock on both channels and crank the master volume with the dirt channel engaged. Then hit a big chord. Twist it up to 'Stage Volume'. Now, right in the middle of a riff........ SWITCH TO CLEAN. Hurts huh? FUCKING LOUD! Now switch back to the distorted channel. TINY! By comparison.

FUCKING TINY.

The pummeling impact and SHEER OPPRESSIVE VOLUME of that 'clean' sound that's ripping your face off is caused by the transients lost by the distortion process. The more distortion, the fewer transients (Not really a totally factual statement, kind of a BLANKET answer, but close enough for our purposes here). Anyways. It's amazing how many twanker bozo's can't get a grip on the concept that increases in distortion MAKE DIRTY GUITARS SOUND SMALLER, NOT BIGGER. Nu-Metal guys are gonna have trouble buying into any flavor of this concept, and we agreed we would "Work with what they gave us" Right? 'Their Sound'. In my shop...When "Your sound" is swinging 12Db common on palm mutes WE GOTTA PROBLEM. I'm going to be compressing the living shit outta your ass one way or the other.
A lot of guitar purists state... 'NEVER COMPRESS DISTORTED GUITAR' on input or mix. The wisdom is based on observations (and their logical extrapolations) of the phenomena we just got done discussing. That is... Heavily distorted guitar sounds ALREADY ARE COMPRESSED (for lack of a better term) by 'square wave rectification' of the signal in circuit that's being used to produce the 'dirty' sound in the first place. By and large, I agree. If I can get away with clever EQ rips to 'tame' a guitar 'To tape' or 'In mix' I will always do that first. However, we live in a big shitty world full of fukwit fools who will insist upon capturing OUTRAGEOUS amounts of 'Swing' from a rig.....So I say... SMASH THE FUCK OUT OF THEM. But BE CAREFUL; if you don't set up compression correctly on input, you stand to shovel yourself into a hole you will NEVER get out of for love or money. Lousy compression CANNOT be undone after the fact. Period.

 

[starbuck26]

According to you and 9,706,120 other people. We can't all be wrong.
[/URL]

62,040,610 people voted for Bush in 2004. And, yes, they were all wrong.

 

[Walt-Dogg]

That's what he's actually going for. So... yeah... don't leave it on all the time.

Is that sarcasm there?

Because I'm going for one single tone the whole time I'm playing, so wouldn't I want to leave it on?

Do you have any boost pedals in mind to suggest for what I'm going for?

 

[moresound]

Look at all the big boys they leave them on in fact they don't even have pedals they all have dam good rack mount gear and if by chance there needs to be a change the guitar tech alters it from his station.

 

[starbuck26]

Is that sarcasm there?

Because I'm going for one single tone the whole time I'm playing, so wouldn't I want to leave it on?

Do you have any boost pedals in mind to suggest for what I'm going for?

The MXR Micro Amp is what you should try.

Outside of that the two that I've used and liked were the Catalinbread Super Chili Picoso and the Fulltone Fat Boost.