Am I delusional? - Rock artist needs advice

  • Thread starter Thread starter kerriobrown
  • Start date Start date
Greg_L said:
Improve what? The mix? Sure. The performance? Sure. The songwriting? No way. As soon as you go changing shit at the whim of your audience, then you suck. Say goodbye to integrity and honesty. As I said before, just write whatever you want to write. If people dig it, great. If not, fuck em.
Click to expand...

Id say the songwriting to yeah. You only lose integrity if you're changing specifically to make others happier without liking it yourself, which isnt what im suggesting. Im saying it doesnt hurt to listen to others perceptions of what you're doing. If you ignore it you're making a very big assumption that you cant possibly improve your ability at whatever you're being judged on.

Songwriting is a skill that has to be learnt also. Everyone progresses, learns things as they go. All the best songwriters will have studied other musicians & how they put their music together also. Listening to feedback is beneficial at all times imo.

Someone new to playing guitar could learn to play semi decently with the odd mistake & then say "thats just how i play, fuck you" to anyone saying it could be tightened up. Or they could listen out for the odd parts that sound dodgy that others point out, work on them and end up a better guitarist for it. Even if they leave them, theyre atleast making a choice rather than being unaware.
 
Greg_L said:
As soon as you go changing shit at the whim of your audience, then you suck.
Click to expand...

Nah, I don't totally agree with this. Most of my songs I write are for me or the wife and I don't care what anyone else thinks. I'll put them out there and if people like them, cool. If not, cool.

But some songs I write for pitching to publishers or labels. Yeah, I'm gonna write it the way they want because I'd like to get them to pick it up. Making a few thousand bucks off a hit song would be cool. (eh, haven't had a song picked up yet, but I think I came close one time)


I listen to why they aren't intersted in the song and I go back to the table with it and try to write a better song.
 
Im to much of a novice to ignore anyones advice...sometimes I feel like sticking my heals in but generally they've got it right...especially with drums, you have to be a moron to play them yet a genius to mix them...whats that all about? :D
 
I completely agree with Razien, on all accounts. I guess I don't understand what is wrong with feeling you have created some worth sharing and getting help to make sure that what is good about that creation is clear to those who will hear it. I'm not trying to create for the sake of people hearing, but rather trying to create things that are in my opinion worth other people hearing.

I really don't think about getting rich and famous off my music, and as nice as it would be to get to create songs 24 hours a day, I'm not changing my music for the sake of that goal. People here saying the songs are (or at least can be) good already means a lot to me.
 
Last edited:
I disagree with some of those taking a hard-line stance on listening to opinions, but you have reminded me of what matters. I am using people's help here to give me better ideas. For instance, did I like have lead guitars diddling around my whole song? Yes, but if it is keeping people from hearing the other parts I think are more worth hearing I want to know that. Otherwise, I'm not actually sharing what I think is worth others' time.

I do get the philosophy of making it exactly how you would want it vs how others would want it, and I would say that good ideas and amount of idea shared go hand-in-hand. The level of compromise b/t the two depends on your own philosophy but there is something to be said for finding a max sum for both variables. It all depends on how much you care about both. My main concern of appreciation is friends and family (which is why I was down when I started this post), so hopefully that leaves me a lot of room good idea-wise, and if I like it it will probably stay. My feeling is that the advice provided here will make me like the songs even more. I'm alone on this project, so I don't have the same interaction w/ band members I used to. Any help is thus very valuable to me.

Thanks,
k
 
kerriobrown said:
My main concern of appreciation is friends and family
Click to expand...

you should be direct and ask them what kind of songs they want you to write, then work with each of them along the way so it turns out exactly how they would appreciate it.
 
Interesting idea, definitely required some thought. But I'm not trying to say I'm doing something selfless for others. I want others to appreciate what I'm capable of by their appreciation of the music I create. I'm remember during the whole grunge wondering why all of these bands were criticizing sell out artists who weren't making true music (i.e. music for themselves), but were still promoting their own music. But there's a big difference. Appreciation is integral to art, but the message the artists wants to get across must remain in tact. I'm not trying to figure out what my friends and family want in a message, or asking people in this forum to give me a message to work with, only how to best output MY message. In fact, I think there are probably some people close to me that think I've squandered other talents to spend so much time on music that won't pay rent, but I'm not it doing for them I'm doing it for me. All the more reason I want their respect by appreciation for what I can do.
 
Obviously, it was sarcasm, just like me saying it was an interesting idea :). But I was addressing the point where the sarcasm came from.
 
Hi Kerrio,

First off i really like both songs, guitar is great. I think that the vocal would be better suited to less auto-tune effect, would love it if you could re-post the song with the auto-tune effect turned off. The lead guitar is a little over powering, but at the same time i really like it. i just think it needs to fit into the mix, and i think it could... listen to Smashing pumpkins "Siamese dream Geek USA" I think that guitar tone would fit perfectly into what you are trying to do here and really compliment the song without over powering the vocals and everything else that you've got going on.

In short; you've got two really good songs here that are trying to do a little too much (in my opinion). keep all of the good and get rid of the things that don't add to the overall feel of the songs. If something isn't adding it's subtracting... try not to do too much. :)

Great songs man, keep it up!
 
i recommend reading Zen Guitar by Toshiro Sudo. it may help you
 
ez_willis said:
why? music is subjective, and who gives a shit what someone else thinks?
Click to expand...

Of course it is subjective - and that's exactly why a musician would be interested in how their audience recieves it. Many say music isn't just the sounds that the musician creates... Music is what the mind makes of those sounds. There is a school of thought, which suggests the listener is as involved in the process of making music, as the musician. If so, I think that would make it all pretty subjective... We could also say it's something that distinguishes art from science - and to some people, it's a little bit of both.

Greg_L said:
Improve what? The mix? Sure. The performance? Sure. The songwriting? No way. As soon as you go changing shit at the whim of your audience, then you suck. Say goodbye to integrity and honesty. As I said before, just write whatever you want to write. If people dig it, great. If not, fuck em.
Click to expand...

That sounds quite black and white. If doing that involved twisting your style and output only in order to reap applause (or make money), then I'd be inclined to agree... Whether something (or someone) sucks, is again, subjective. The sort of person who swings on the whim of his target audience probably wouldn't have attempted anything original in the first place and so, (if you believe in my earlier point), it does no harm to at least consider the feedback.

I think the way to measure a musician's integrity is by how they filter - and ultimately use that feedback, to their advantage; without losing that little ingredient which make their songs special.

Maybe some of us would be saying 'goodbye to our honesty' when we state we don't give a fuck what others think? If we're to be absolutely honest, I think there's something in most of us that does care, even if only a little.

If nothing else, it's interesting to discover the effect your work has on others - and if your music was designed to stir some kind of emotion and yet failed to convey it, because the writer didn't listen to his audience, then might it then be fair to say "it sucks"? Well, if we happened to agree on ez-willis's point, then who can say? :)

Dr. V
 
Last edited:
I like the songs. They sound like pretty typical pop stuff written by a 20-something year old musician.

I'd say you are expecting way too much if you think your family and friends are going to get all excited every time you play them a song. How often do you get worked up when you hear a new song on the radio? How often have you disliked a song the first dozen times you've heard it, then all of a sudden you start to like it?

The songs themselves are fine. Your only real problems are a lack of confidence and being too easily discouraged.

Peter Buck of R.E.M. said "you just have to follow your gut, and if your gut sucks you won't go anywhere." It's that simple.

P.S. I would take any song-writing advice with a bucket of salt. I doubt anyone spending their time here has written a hit song.
 
Dr. Varney said:
Maybe not - but who's to say their opinions can't be useful?

Dr. V
Click to expand...

Undoubtedly some advice will be useful because everyone has something valuable to share. The problem is not everyone has something valuable to share in every instance.
 
Dr. Varney said:
Maybe not - but who's to say their opinions can't be useful?

Dr. V
Click to expand...

Agree. Its a silly argument really, the massive majority on any of these forums hasnt produced/mixed/mastered hit songs either that doesnt mean much. The idea of the forum is to get advice from others who are more experienced/have learnt more about whatever subject you're interested in. Its all opinions though.
 
Newbie-Doo said:
P.S. I would take any song-writing advice with a bucket of salt. I doubt anyone spending their time here has written a hit song.
Click to expand...

define "hit". I'm still gettting royalties on a song i wrote and recorded almost 20 years ago. :p
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top