How do these CHORUSES sound so thick and full!? I know you know! haha

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gethypedmusic

You Have No Idea.....
How are they making the hooks sound so thick to where it only sounds like one vocal on the hook? but it seems like it would need more than just one vocal with nothing stacked under it to have that amount of clarity in songs ... Sorry if thats explained REALLY bad haha but For example in different Genres for everybody ;)


Drake - Forever CHORUS
When the hook plays its so THICK to where it fills the beat perfectly and it sounds like its a single Vocal... but what more is there to it than that...

Aerosmith 38 Seconds in where he says "Janie's got a gun" but also most of the vocals... its not as thick as what i want but its 75% of the way there.

Beyonce - Halo CHORUS
Of course there is back grounds here but up front the voice so THICK and warm AGAIN beautiful... Whats the trick!?

Jay Z - Dirt Off Ya Shoulder CHORUS
Simple, Thick and Warm!

Lil Wayne - Lolli Pop CHORUS

There is alot less singing in Rap Hip/Hop Hooks so theres not so much singing background and harmonies etc. so this is the reason theres alot more rap examples.

Anyways.....

This is the sound im trying to aquire for my own vocals... Any tips? I'm currently trying the 9 cents up 9 Cents Down method.... Im thinking thats partially what they are doing...


Thanks Guys/ Girls!
 
IF we would know all the trics that the top professionals know, would we be hanging around on this forum or making millions?

Someone here might know something (I don't) but no one is going to tell you exactly how those were achieved.
 
I don't have time to go looking for all of those songs. So, I'll just take your word for it that they sound good.

Great vocal sound comes from a combination of several things. It starts with a very, (very) clean and smooth mic and preamp. Several mics are tried until the "best match" is found for the singer. Place them in the sweetest spot of a well treated room. Entice the singer to perform his very best and choose the best take out of several. Then compress (only the vocal track) enough to bring out all of that nuance, overtone, expression, and character of the voice. (That trick really brings it forward, almost "in your face" without making it sound too loud.) If you must apply digital reverb, apply it in small amounts, layered over top of itself two or three times. Then take your mix to a real mastering pro. Sit beside him and listen carefully to everything he says about how to improve your mix. Then go practice by doing it a hundred more times.

The best engineers are not the best just because they know a trick or two. The question is...how much hard work and money are you willing to invest to achieve that level of recording skill?

I've been working on it for years and am still not there. But I am getting closer as I gain experience.

I guess you gotta love what you do and do what you love.
 
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Joza said:
IF we would know all the trics that the top professionals know, would we be hanging around on this forum or making millions?
Click to expand...

Many of us do know all of the tricks. The answer is very disappointing:


The trick is that there are no tricks. A person who can sing better than 0.001% of the population recorded by a guy who can listen better than 0.001% of the population directed by a guy with better mind for what "works" in a song than 0.001% of the population just comes out sounding great.


-Put all thoughts of plugins and compressors and double-tracking out of your head.

-Improve your singing ability until you can sing with no band, no microphone, no studio, and still have women throw themselves at you... even while their boyfriends are standing right there.

-Improve your listening skills until any audio flaw assaults you so ferociously that you can no longer even stand to hear streaming audio, broadcast television, and radio... even when you are trying to actively ignore the flaws.

-Know your how your equipment responds. You when you speak into your vocal channel you should be able to predict the reaction of your microphone and compressor better than you can predict the reaction of your wife if you speak the same thing to her. You are not fumbling through eqs and thresholds and then stopping when you find something that sounds good. You are getting a mental image of the sound and then going straight to the equipment and settings that make that sound.

-Improve your sense of musical arrangement to the point where the song writer himself is praising the changes you make to his beloved composition.


Thick choruses will follow.
 
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Joza said:
Someone here might know something (I don't) but no one is going to tell you exactly how those were achieved.
Click to expand...

I promise that nobody is hiding anything because there is nothing to hide.

It would be like asking Tom Brady "What is the trick to being a great quarterback? Like, what is the angle of your elbow when your hand comes over the top on a pass?" and him saying "No way I'm telling you! Then you'll be a better quarterback than me!".

Tom Brady could tell you everything he knows and still be in no danger of competition from any home quarterbacks who read about his "tricks".
 
RawDepth said:
I don't have time to go looking for all of those songs. So, I'll just take your word for it that they sound good.

Great vocal sound comes from a combination of several things. It starts with a very, (very) clean and smooth mic and preamp. Several mics are tried until the "best match" is found for the singer. Place them in the sweetest spot of a well treated room. Entice the singer to perform his very best and choose the best take out of several. Then compress (only the vocal track) enough to bring out all of that nuance, overtone, expression, and character of the voice. (That trick really brings it forward, almost "in your face" without making it sound too loud.) If you must apply digital reverb, apply it in small amounts, layered over top of itself two or three times. Then take your mix to a real mastering pro. Sit beside him and listen carefully to everything he says about how to improve your mix. Then go practice by doing it a hundred more times.

The best engineers are not the best just because they know a trick or two. The question is...how much hard work and money are you willing to invest to achieve that level of recording skill?

I've been working on it for years and am still not there. But I am getting closer as I gain experience.

I guess you gotta love what you do and do what you love.
Click to expand...

Great advice man! I have a VERY VERY clean preamp and mic atleast I think so

M Audio Sputnik $900
MOTU Traveler $1000

The vocals come out sooo perfectly warm and clean I get goosebumps when I sit in my car and listen to rough drafts with just the volume levels adjusted(no EQing or effects). When i was asking what tricks there are I was referring to maybe a certain combination of stacks, reverb tricks, angles of singing tricks etc.

And its obvious you and CHIBI know what your talking about.... I have a singer... And when you say "The sweetest spot of a well treated room" would this change from track to track or would the sweet spot stay in the same place for THAT singers vocals.. My Room is treated almost perfectly aside from I dont have a cloud yet... 4" OC 703 bass traps in every corner from floor to ceiling.... 4" OC 703 Panels to my direct left and right of my monitors (Yamaha HS80s) And the rest of the room from hours of research etc. I have mygear set back 38% into the room long ways. Where would my singer want to be?! I have him sing in front of me with that 38% of the room... should he be in the bigger area to my rear with the 62%?!!?

Confusing I can answer questions?! thanks for you input and time man!


Chibi Nappa said:
Many of us do know all of the tricks. The answer is very disappointing:


The trick is that there are no tricks. A person who can sing better than 0.001% of the population recorded by a guy who can listen better than 0.001% of the population directed by a guy with better mind for what "works" in a song than 0.001% of the population just comes out sounding great.


-Put all thoughts of plugins and compressors and double-tracking out of your head.

-Improve your singing ability until you can sing with no band, no microphone, no studio, and still have women throw themselves at you... even while their boyfriends are standing right there.

*************** His ability is literally AT this level. No bullshit

-Improve your listening skills until any audio flaw assaults you so ferociously that you can no longer even stand to hear streaming audio, broadcast television, and radio... even when you are trying to actively ignore the flaws.

**********Nice haha Good idea!

-Know your how your equipment responds. You when you speak into your vocal channel you should be able to predict the reaction of your microphone and compressor better than you can predict the reaction of your wife if you speak the same thing to her. You are not fumbling through eqs and thresholds and then stopping when you find something that sounds good. You are getting a mental image of the sound and then going straight to the equipment and settings that make that sound.

-Improve your sense of musical arrangement to the point where the song writer himself is praising the changes you make to his beloved composition.


Thick choruses will follow.
Click to expand...

So to break it all down into a couple words.. Practice Practice Practice : ) Thanks for the boost man ;)
 
I know exactly what you mean by your original question.
When I listen to chorus vox I am looking for evidence that they double tracked - that is two seperate takes whether same notes or harmonized. Usually I hear harmonies. But, sometimes, the chorus is soo thick and warm yet I can't hear any double tracking whatsoever. It's like one take but I know for a fact due to reading thru mixing stuff that a studio had like 30 tracks solely for the vocals alone and of course a few of those tracks were dedicated for the chorus. Yet, when it came to the song it seems the singer is doing solo, not panned left and right - straight down the middle - but sooo thick.

Is it merely due to the pre and the mic?? Or, is there something hidden about doubling tracks and running them straight up the middle etc.

Also, how the heck do singers do multiple tracks of the vocals and hit each word and lyric at exactly the same place as before. I mean, I practice some songs and always there will always be some words that don't sync with the words of the track before and after it.
 
Chibi Nappa said:
I promise that nobody is hiding anything because there is nothing to hide.

It would be like asking Tom Brady "What is the trick to being a great quarterback? Like, what is the angle of your elbow when your hand comes over the top on a pass?" and him saying "No way I'm telling you! Then you'll be a better quarterback than me!".

Tom Brady could tell you everything he knows and still be in no danger of competition from any home quarterbacks who read about his "tricks".
Click to expand...

I didnt mean anybody is hiding anything. I meant no one can tell based on listening that "oh yeah in that song they used the compressor X with these settings and then these reverbs with these settings and....."
 
Ya exactly what NZA said. I wasnt trying to pinpoint software and hardware used just the method of acheiving the effect of it being so thick while only sounding like a single vocal take
 
nzausrec said:
Also, how the heck do singers do multiple tracks of the vocals and hit each word and lyric at exactly the same place as before.
Click to expand...


It's the difference between somebody who knows what they're doing and somebody who relies on luck and inspiration.

When I was younger
I needed good luck
I'm a little bit older now
And I know my stuff
 
My earlier comment about compression might be worth a second look. Some of the magic you seek lies within.
 
Also taking a copy of the main vox track, high passing it and adding reverb tails ... Don't know exactly how really just that it sounds a lot like a little delay, then verbing.

Also, when I listen closer to the instruments these days it seems like most songs have a pad doing pretty much the notes the vocalist does.
 
nzausrec said:
It's like one take but I know for a fact due to reading thru mixing stuff that a studio had like 30 tracks solely for the vocals alone and of course a few of those tracks were dedicated for the chorus. Yet, when it came to the song it seems the singer is doing solo, not panned left and right - straight down the middle - but sooo thick.
Click to expand...
Even if there are 30 tracks that doesn't mean all 30 are being used at the same time. Sometimes there will be 30 tracks worth of takes, and the engineer will comp them and take the best parts from each.

In choruses if it sounds like a single take or rather a single track, most likely it is. I.e. it is likely it is not doubletracked or harmonized.

In the end it is about overall balance. So, if you have a naked solo voice which still sounds about as full as when you have a full band playing it is about relative levels of everything. When you have a solo voice, it will likely be mixed in louder, likely have more reverb and delay on it, which will then be pulled back when you have a full band as to not to clutter up the mix.
 
noisewreck said:
Even if there are 30 tracks that doesn't mean all 30 are being used at the same time. Sometimes there will be 30 tracks worth of takes, and the engineer will comp them and take the best parts from each.

In choruses if it sounds like a single take or rather a single track, most likely it is. I.e. it is likely it is not doubletracked or harmonized.

In the end it is about overall balance. So, if you have a naked solo voice which still sounds about as full as when you have a full band playing it is about relative levels of everything. When you have a solo voice, it will likely be mixed in louder, likely have more reverb and delay on it, which will then be pulled back when you have a full band as to not to clutter up the mix.
Click to expand...

What you're saying here makes ALOT of sense also! Because when listening to the songs I'm talking about it actually just sounds like it blends so well but maybe the reverb and delay that is applied is what is making it seem so thick ya know.

More input is also helpful though guys so continue on : )
 
Thick vocals secret

I don't know what all they do for vocals. but my band (Inner Frequency) did a 3 song EP with a producer (Will Hunt) who is currently working with Amy Lee for her new album. (i'm saying all that to show he's actually a professional producer)

the way he did doubled vocals on our lead singer was to do a hard L/R pan and then use a plug-in like 'Synchro Arts - VocAlign Pro' to line them up. (i'm pretty sure it was actually that plug-in.. because i couldn't believe something like that existed.. i've always lined up vocals by hand)

Anyways, it made her have that full doubled sound, but matched them perfectly.. so it sounds like only one take. (of course the takes do have to be pretty close already and sung on pitch)

i'm sure that is not all they do.. but that is a huge start. (plus good mic, good singer..etc)

you wanna hear what it did for my band.. check out www.innerfrequency.com or for the full songs myspace.com/innerfrequency
 
I've been having a problem lately with getting my vocals to sit. I've put a lot of time into really thickening up my rock mixes without destroying the space they have, and what I've noticed is that comparably my vocal takes sound tinny and weak. I don't have a very powerful voice, but I have worked on best matching my voice to a mic that I own. Still, tinny and weak. It sounds like the band was recorded properly and then the vocals were overdubbed in someone's untreated basement.

I think RawDepth is right about compression except for his conservative, professional approach. I don't think proper compression (i.e. judiciously applied compression) will do it for the OP.

The reason for this is that what may be an optimal recording technique and what we are used to hearing are two distinct things. Everyone is smashing the piss out of everything these days, and doing so buries a beautiful, dynamic vocal take.

In my recent mixing, I have been toying with limiters just to see how far I can smash things and not get sick to my stomach. In doing so, the vocals on one particular song with extremely sparse instrumentation started to have the thump that I wanted. Likely answer: I was hearing the limiter doing things to my vocal take.

So I went back into my rock mixes and smashed the bejeezus out of my vocals with a limiter. Voila. Not the greatest sound in the world IMHO, but definitely much closer to what I'm used to hearing on the radio. I think what the OP is looking for is extreme compression. Ugh, but I understand exactly what he is talking about.
 
One standard trick is to thin out, and slightly compress the background vocals. This makes the main vocal sound warmer and fuller.
 
How do you 'thin out' bvs?

About the 'slight compression' thing, there's this thing I've used on bvs with some success in some mixes: fast attack and release, high threshold, and a very light ratio, like 1.1:1 or something. I don't think it makes the main vocal warmer and fuller, but it helps bring out the bvs. Are we talking about the same technique?
 
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