Water based lacquer Vs Nitrocellulose lacquer

  • Thread starter Thread starter Victory Pete
  • Start date Start date
no actually it is more than likely automotive lacquer paint.

i've been researching and so far i'm not saying your wrong, but i'm still not saying your right, and so far from what i've found, including web conversations from serious professionals that are really fun to read, is that many like autopaint but it can interfere with the vibrations (and of course don't forget how toxic it is to the one applying it)

that is the short version, i am tired so will try to add more later because not done checking it out and too tired to type everything i've allready found

happy thanksgiving:)
 
Let me get this right?

You posted a link to the most expensive boutique supplier of finishing products available to the guitar enthusiast in answer to your own request for help on guitar finishing products?

Other members may benefit from it.
VP
 
Bookmark this post and then you can come back and laugh at yourself when you get a little older and realise EVH is actually just another regular guitar playing dude bathed in hype..;)

:rolleyes:
i disagree, i'm not going to save up $6,000 for nothing, i don't have that to lose, i'm going to be a Reaper user, doesn't that tell you anything about my smarts?:);)
 
Eddie Van Halen is a drunk. He can't even play anymore never mind talk.

I had a Les Paul stripped and refinished with duPont $900/gallon automotive shit. Came out great and it won't turn green.


lou
 
Eddie Van Halen is a drunk. He can't even play anymore never mind talk.

I had a Les Paul stripped and refinished with duPont $900/gallon automotive shit. Came out great and it won't turn green.


lou


your an idiot drunk or not
 
Eddie Van Halen is a drunk. He can't even play anymore never mind talk.

I had a Les Paul stripped and refinished with duPont $900/gallon automotive shit. Came out great and it won't turn green.


lou

Nope it almost certainly won't.

I'm going to have to leave the rest of that project til Monday by the way. I'll let you know when it's running again.
 
I was as impressed - nay enthralled - by EVH as anyone. I saw them in concert in '79 and was blown away. I did not think that shit on the albums was possible live. Having said that I would never assume his playing prowess automatically made him an expert in luthiery.

His addiction is well known and his playing, and life, have suffered terribly.


lou

Next week is fine.
 
I was as impressed - nay enthralled - by EVH as anyone. I saw them in concert in '79 and was blown away. I did not think that shit on the albums was possible live. Having said that I would never assume his playing prowess automatically made him an expert in luthiery.

His addiction is well known and his playing, and life, have suffered terribly.


lou

Next week is fine.

I agree, I saw them in 1980, inspired me to play.
VP
 
Ill give him his credit for his own unique tapping style that lots of guitarists mimic.
 
Crist Muttley - I mean, yes, VP is an idiot, but come on. Correct him when he opens his mouth with erroneous information, and then drop it. You two are making this board a real pain to read.


Let's see - I've never used any waterborne lacquers, but I have a lot of friends who have. When I've looked at their guitars, most of them still look kind of blue to me. I can't say as that I'm interested, but then I've actually got a real spray booth, so I don't have to worry too much about my Nitro exploding on me. (Because, you know, giant balls of fire tend to ruin ones day!) I'm going to go with the assumption you don't have a spray booth, since if you did you wouldn't be asking the question.

Of the waterborne lacquers I've seen, LMI's KTM-9 is by far the best looking, and the guys I know who use tell me it is quite easy to use. They had some adhesion problems when it first came out, but they seem to have that taken care of.


EVH, by the way, finished his Franken-Strats with rattle can spray paint from the hardware store, and his necks were unfinished - which is why he ran through them in about a year or so. Maple neck need a hard finish to be stable. If you don't want a high gloss feel, get a satin finished neck - it feels great, and still protects the neck.

That being said, take anything that comes out of his mouth on how he does things with a EXTREMELY large grain of salt. He seems to think he needs to guard the "secret" to his sound. (it's not really a secret - use a variac to drop the line voltage, which drops the voltage to the plates in the amp - but it does wreck tubes awfully fast, and isn't very good for your amp. If you want to see a better way to do it, check out London Sound's Power Scaling amps, which do the same thing without wrecking anything.) He has been known to spread all sorts of bull shit about his sound. Apparently, at least for a while, he had an amp on stage with only three power tubes in it - I'm assuming a dummy amp meant to throw people off since amps just don't work like that, but who knows. The truth is, it doesn't matter what amp or guitar he uses - the REAL secret is in his hands - but like most drunks he is insecure about his position in life, and over-compensates. As a result, you can never trust him when he talks about what equipment he is using.



Light

"Cowards can never be moral."
M.K. Gandhi
 
Crist Muttley - I mean, yes, VP is an idiot, but come on. Correct him when he opens his mouth with erroneous information, and then drop it. You two are making this board a real pain to read.


Let's see - I've never used any waterborne lacquers, but I have a lot of friends who have. When I've looked at their guitars, most of them still look kind of blue to me. I can't say as that I'm interested, but then I've actually got a real spray booth, so I don't have to worry too much about my Nitro exploding on me. (Because, you know, giant balls of fire tend to ruin ones day!) I'm going to go with the assumption you don't have a spray booth, since if you did you wouldn't be asking the question.

Of the waterborne lacquers I've seen, LMI's KTM-9 is by far the best looking, and the guys I know who use tell me it is quite easy to use. They had some adhesion problems when it first came out, but they seem to have that taken care of.


EVH, by the way, finished his Franken-Strats with rattle can spray paint from the hardware store, and his necks were unfinished - which is why he ran through them in about a year or so. Maple neck need a hard finish to be stable. If you don't want a high gloss feel, get a satin finished neck - it feels great, and still protects the neck.

That being said, take anything that comes out of his mouth on how he does things with a EXTREMELY large grain of salt. He seems to think he needs to guard the "secret" to his sound. (it's not really a secret - use a variac to drop the line voltage, which drops the voltage to the plates in the amp - but it does wreck tubes awfully fast, and isn't very good for your amp. If you want to see a better way to do it, check out London Sound's Power Scaling amps, which do the same thing without wrecking anything.) He has been known to spread all sorts of bull shit about his sound. Apparently, at least for a while, he had an amp on stage with only three power tubes in it - I'm assuming a dummy amp meant to throw people off since amps just don't work like that, but who knows. The truth is, it doesn't matter what amp or guitar he uses - the REAL secret is in his hands - but like most drunks he is insecure about his position in life, and over-compensates. As a result, you can never trust him when he talks about what equipment he is using.



Light

"Cowards can never be moral."
M.K. Gandhi

Once again, I am far from an idiot. Right about Muttley, he should state his position and move on. Sure I get defensive, I am sick of the never ending arguing. I do have a small booth with an exhaust fan. I am contemplating water base for the health and environmental reasons. I was curious about how well it melts in to the previous coats, that is what I love about Nitro, seamless touchups. I have a method of repairing nicks and dents where I do a drop fill and then immediately swipe it with a credit card. It takes many applications but it results in a perfect repair with minimal sanding and leveling.
VP
 
I was curious about how well it melts in to the previous coats...



It doesn't - it's more like varnish in that regard. As I understand it (from reading Dan Erlewine's book, which is excellent by the way) you will get some cross-linking of coats that you spray before it drys, but by about 24 hours that's over and done with. As a result you need to sand it enough to get a good mechanical bond.

Myself, if I were going to switch finishes at this point, it would be to a UV cured poly, like Taylor and all them folks are using (well, actually, I think Kevin Ryan introduced the stuff to the guitar world, but then he used to be an aerospace engineer). One of our repair folks was out at the Taylor factory recently to get "certified" (even though we are already one of their largest warranty facilities, and she does more work on Taylors than just about anyone), and she was quite amazed by their finish stuff. I'm not completely sure that I want to use a product that requires a light powerful enough to give you a really bad sunburn, but having nearly 0 VOCs sure sounds good, and I like the idea of not having to get rid of hazardous waste anymore!

You might want to do some soul searching here. You've got a number of experienced and knowledgeable guitar folks telling you almost everything you post about guitars is wrong - maybe you aren't as smart as you think you are? Like it or not, Muttley is very good at this stuff, and I've been doing this a long damn time too, having learned it from one of the best guitar builders around (my dad) and the finest repair staff in the business (well, obviously I think so, but so do the folks at Martin and Taylor, and all of our 2000+customers every year for the last 40 years), not to mention building hundreds and repairing thousands of guitars myself. LT. Bob has probably spent more hours on a stage playing guitar than some board members around here have been alive, and knows his shit as well. Not to mention all the other board members. Occam's Razor would seems to apply.

Either way, please stop posting bullshit. Questions are fine - questions show a desire to learn and grow, and I for one will continue to take your questions seriously. But I'll still call bullshit on you when you post bullshit.


Light

"Cowards can never be moral."
M.K. Gandhi
 
Crist Muttley - I mean, yes, VP is an idiot, but come on. Correct him when he opens his mouth with erroneous information, and then drop it. You two are making this board a real pain to read.

That's the idea from my point of view. I have tried all the angles you suggest and he still keeps on turning decent threads into train wrecks. You are completely wasting your time asking him to move on, wise up or stfu. Have some fun with him instead. Eventually something will have to be done about it. The mods reckon he would just wise up or move on and aren't really concerned about the misinformation he posts so it's OK for me to do what I'm doing. You should try it its a whole lot of fun.
 
Once again, I am far from an idiot. Right about Muttley, he should state his position and move on. Sure I get defensive, I am sick of the never ending arguing. I do have a small booth with an exhaust fan. I am contemplating water base for the health and environmental reasons. I was curious about how well it melts in to the previous coats, that is what I love about Nitro, seamless touchups. I have a method of repairing nicks and dents where I do a drop fill and then immediately swipe it with a credit card. It takes many applications but it results in a perfect repair with minimal sanding and leveling.
VP

Show us a picture of your booth VP.

It doesn't "melt" into previous coats. Thats one of the biggest headaches when using it because any subsequent witness lines are worse than on any other finish I've seen. It's widely known for this.
 
If you are serious about waterborne, get Dan's book. Even as an experienced finish guy, I learned some interesting stuff from his book, and while I've never had cause to bother with Waterborne Lacquer, I still found his sections on using it interesting and educational. If they are as good as the sections on Nitro, it is sure to be useful.


Light

"Cowards can never be moral."
M.K. Gandhi
 
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