Going cheap, a big no no!

  • Thread starter Thread starter Jean-Pierre
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darrin_h2000 said:
That being said...when a new behringer is the same price as a used soundcraft or Mackie...the smart money doesnt buy the new Behringer.

When an audio technica 40 series used is the same price as a cheap new mic...the smart money goes to the real mic.

Just because you are a beginner doesnt mean you cant drive a caddilac in stead of a yugo...you just have to be a smarter shopper.
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Darrin, it's a question of "consider the source." The poster in question was talking a big name about being a "live engineer" getting into recording, at the ripe old age of 16, and mentioned he'd been a Behringer user until last week, but now he thinks you shouldn't "go cheap" but instead save up for something better. Like, for example, a $30k board. Then, when someone disagreed with him, he got all snippy and elitist, and continued to put forth empty opinions that reading between the lines (even outside of his age, which was the icing on the cake) it was clear he simply didn't have the experience to back up.

While in general it makes sense to be very careful with your money and buy the best you can afford, that doesn't mean this sort of blind elitism is cool either.
 
DrewPeterson7 said:
Darrin, it's a question of "consider the source." The poster in question was talking a big name about being a "live engineer" getting into recording, at the ripe old age of 16, and mentioned he'd been a Behringer user until last week, but now he thinks you shouldn't "go cheap" but instead save up for something better. Like, for example, a $30k board. Then, when someone disagreed with him, he got all snippy and elitist, and continued to put forth empty opinions that reading between the lines (even outside of his age, which was the icing on the cake) it was clear he simply didn't have the experience to back up.

While in general it makes sense to be very careful with your money and buy the best you can afford, that doesn't mean this sort of blind elitism is cool either.
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he pm'd me a list of the pro equipment he uses in the studio...amazing what you can remember whilst sweeping the floors and emptying the garbage..lol


Joke Jean P...just in case :)
 
kcearl said:
wow thats a pretty good deal


maybe Ill have three behri mixers now ;)
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I have the XENYX version of that board. Got it used for $300 almost 2 years ago. I love it. The big selling point to me was the 8 direct outs. Perfect for the 8 analog ins on my Delta 1010lt. Then you can use the subgroups to do monitor/headphone mixes.

It's the perfect mixer for our jam room/studio we can use it for rehersal or recording it gives us tons of options.
 
Yonce N Mild said:
Oh yeah? What model Behringer what model mackie? Same features?

Find me a used mackie that has these features for this money. http://pro-audio.musiciansfriend.com/product/Behringer-Eurorack-UB2442FXPRO-Mixer?sku=631230


The comparable mackie runs $750 new.
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Agreed, a friend of mine has that same board coupled with a pair of behringer truths and a delta 1010lt, The results we have come up with while using have been very good. The only thing that I don't care for is the eq, if all the ranges were parametric instead of just the mid, it would be a truly excellent board. As is though I still have found it to be quite good especially for the price.
 
Once again, the discussion isn't about Behringer versus other stuff. In this thread I (and I'm sure others) used Behringer as a synonym for "cheap gear". When I say Behringer I'm actually saying all the cheap stuff ..... Nady, Sonic ... etc.

It's certainly true that you can get used stuff for the same price as new Behringer that will outperform it but that's for a different thread.
I'm Not saying Behringer is the best way to spend your money ..... it's just a descriptive term that was responding to the actual subject of this thread.
The OP would have said don't get that used Peavey either because you really need to spend 30k. From the original standpoint the used Peavey is cheap crap too.

What I, and everyone else, is saying is that you use what you've got ..... whatever it is ..... regardless if someone else really REALLY hates it.
I can absolutely do a recording with an all Behringer chain and no one would notice.
That doesn't mean I'm saying to run out and buy Behringer ..... I haven't and don't own any nowadays but I have little doubt that I could do a better recording with cheap gear than the OP could do with high-end stuff.
 
Lt. Bob said:
Once again, the discussion isn't about Behringer versus other stuff. In this thread I (and I'm sure others) used Behringer as a synonym for "cheap gear". When I say Behringer I'm actually saying all the cheap stuff ..... Nady, Sonic ... etc.

It's certainly true that you can get used stuff for the same price as new Behringer that will outperform it but that's for a different thread.
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Well they seem to make one of everything...like Yamaha...cept Yamaha is good stuff...so it is going to come up...sure Nady, Sonic...etc is badly made too...but doesnt have the foothold in the market that a shiny new behringer does...so its going to come up alot.
 
why does it have such a large foothold?


surely after one dissapointment no one goes back to it?


or are they not dissapointed?
 
lol


yeah but if you de-restrict the carbs you'll hit 60!
 
DrewPeterson7 said:
You're a live engineer, huh? How many years have you been engineering? What are some of the bands you've worked with? How many hours of experience do you have under your belt? How much time have you logged with that Midas, and how much with a Behringer board?
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I've worked with two SAMA award winning artists (John Ellis and Reason), as well as a ton of up and coming bands and yes on the behringer and on the Midas. So far I've clocked 20-30 hours on the Midas (next year it’s being upgraded to a digidesign venue) and well over a hundred with a behringer (and hated every moment of it). I must say I have been mixing live for a year which might not sound impressive but where my cash lacks my time doesn't. I mix 4-5 times a week and at the beginning of the years I mixed 7 times a week.

I would like to add I do stand corrected (Lt. Bob) some necessarily cheap stuff isn't crap, but the fact remains in sound equipment you generally get what you pay for. I would like to tell you something one of my friends (who is studying recording) asked me. If a top brand (Sound Craft, Yamaha) makes a product for R10000, Behringer can make it for R2000, why?
 
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Hey, I'd love to have a $30,000 mixer in my live rig. But I don't have one. I still do okay, though. :)

In the past couple/few years, I've probably mixed live about 1,000 hours. When the band is on their game, and the room is workable, and I've got my act together--I can stand in the middle of the joint and smile 'cause it sounds like a CD cranked up. And yeah, I've had folks in the audience tell me it does too.

When that happens--it isn't my mixer. And when the sound is less than stellar, that also isn't my mixer.

Better tools are, well, better--but the fact remains: I'll take my knowledge of sound and music and a crappy mixer, over a great mixer and no knowledge any day of the week.

(In case it sounds like I'm bragging, I'll burst my own bubble for 'ya: my mixer isn't just cheap--it's a dreaded Behringer. A 32 channel workhorse without a single hiccup. I liked it so much that when I started doing some festivals where I needed tons of channels at the ready, I bought it's little brother in a 16 channel format for a drum & percussion sub mix. Why Behri? I'm a musician first and assembled the live rig on a lark to help a friend's band out--so yep, I wanted cheap. Word got out about their sound and I got lots of "invitations." No one's ever worried, asked or complained about my board. Will I ever buy a $30,000 board? I doubt it. For that kind of money, I could get a 58 Strat.)
 
WhiteStrat said:
(In case it sounds like I'm bragging, I'll burst my own bubble for 'ya: my mixer isn't just cheap--it's a dreaded Behringer. A 32 channel workhorse without a single hiccup. I liked it so much that when I started doing some festivals where I needed tons of channels at the ready, I bought it's little brother in a 16 channel format for a drum & percussion sub mix. Why Behri? I'm a musician first and assembled the live rig on a lark to help a friend's band out--so yep, I wanted cheap. Word got out about their sound and I got lots of "invitations." No one's ever worried, asked or complained about my board. Will I ever buy a $30,000 board? I doubt it. For that kind of money, I could get a 58 Strat.)
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WhiteStrat echoes closely my own story. Heaps of live mixing . . . many moments of exquisite pleasure when everything comes together. And guess what? Likewise on a Behri. Complaints? None.

In recent times, I started looking around for something bigger (Behri has only 16 mike channels), and thought I'd reward myself with something a bit more upmarket. I look exceedingly closely at the Midas Venice, having used it on a number of ocassions in the past. However, in the time I have left on the road, I found it hard to justify its expense.

In the end I settled on an A&H Zed428. It was about halfway in price between Behri and Midas. It is a lovely desk, with many Midas-like qualities. But for functionality and routing capabilities, the Behri is way on top. And for sound quality, well, the punters will not perceive any difference.

The moral of the story is as WhiteStrat said: "Better tools are, well, better--but the fact remains: I'll take my knowledge of sound and music and a crappy mixer, over a great mixer and no knowledge any day of the week."
 
Yeah, I know, good gear is better. I have some OK stuff, and some crap. I know the money spent on good gear is often worth it.

On the other hand, blow it out your ass. I am a guy with 1.5 jobs and 2 kids. Time and money are not in abundance in my current lifestyle. It doesn't bother me a bit that I sometimes use a Behringer Virtualizer Pro or a PreSonus BlueTube, or any of the other crap I've got lying around. I come in the studio to make music, and that's what I do. I don't expect it to sound professional, I just expect to enjoy it and learn stuff along the way. So far, both of those goals have been met consistently. I am a HOME recordist. It is a HOBBY. You may look as far down your nose at guys like me as you want, won't affect my enjoyment a bit. Why not just enjoy your primo setup and be happy? Why bother worrying about those of us with lesser gear?

Peace, love, and pizza grease!
 
Jean-Pierre said:
This is one thing I can't understand, if you intend to do something properly why go cheap.

I have seen in both live and recording. People will rather buy that cheap Behringer instead of the soundcraft that will do the job better and have to replace the behringer in 2-3 years opposed to the Soundcraft that would last nearly 10(live sound). I have just started dabbling in recording but so far I am seeing the same thing. Wares opposed to buying the software, 'best cheap reverb'- do yourself a favour and save up for a good lexicon processor, less expensive software compared to the top of the range.

If you can't afford something make a plan to get the money together don't take the cheaper alternative. There is a ton of recordings out there that just plain suck because of incompetent recording engineers (if that is what it should be called) with rubbish equipment.
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You're an idiot. Grow a pube and come back in 3 years.
 
RAMI said:
You're an idiot. Grow a pube and come back in 3 years.
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Oh come on now,
now YOU be the adult! ;)
This kid is amazing for 16, and uh, yeah, he could use some more life experience LOL.

(it'll take a lot more then three years:D)
 
halfred said:
now YOU be the adult! ;)
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I tried that. Not for me. :eek:

The thing is, you have this 16 year old schmuck stating the obvious and trying to make it sound like he's fucking "enlightened". Of course everyone would love to have top of the line gear.

But this embryo, who hasn't even had time to make enough mistakes to learn from, doesn't get the concept that even the best gear in a clown's hands is not going to get you anywhere. On the other side of the coin, a good, experienced engineer can make better recordings with a panasonic cassette player than a bozo with no talent will make at Abbey Road Studios.

Dude lives with mommy, probably has never seen a live pussy, but here he is trying to preach to people....all based on his ONE YEAR of live sound expereince...oh, and I almost forgot, he also has a friend that goes to recording school. :rolleyes:.

Give me a fucking break.
 
Jean-Pierre said:
Yes from behringers I have used and still used up until last week, then its onboard graphic eq blew and it got replaced (it was brand new 2 years ago, talk about top quality) . The fact remains cheap equipment will limit you in the long run. Why bother with it to start with.
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your only 16??? i know that sounds kinda retarded coming from someone whos only 18 but...

if your only sixteen i can't imagine how you would have had much time to practice and learn before now, most 15/16 year olds are just trying to find things to stick their wiener in. i know you think its cool that you read somewhere that behringer is bad but don't go around preaching to people that are 2 to 4 times your age like you know better then they do.
 
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