Fruity Loops or Protools?

[JohnnyScience]

What do you guys suggest for someone who wants to include real instruments, live vocals from a dead room & electronic goodness from the computer?

I'm looking for an "all-in-one" software that can build a song from beginning to end.

Thanks.

 

[NinthHour]

well the best way imho to go is to get into a DAW with a full feature set because you have to consider that while you can put a track together with FL if you run, say, Cubase you can record live instruments, live vocals, as well as use soft synths as plugins via midi. (as a matter of fact you can ReWire Fruity Loops into cubase or other DAW's) this way you have a better feature set than just "beat Creation software" you dont wanna get bare minimum and find that your limits will cut you short right before you reach your goal for any project thats my two cents what kind of music do you do?

 

[Jeff_D]

The answer is always Reaper.

 

[JohnnyScience]

I guess I'm a little lost & a little new.

Can you explain that a little more?

Are you saying with FL you need 2 programs? 1 for the software & 1 for the hardware?

Which program is a better choice?

We're gonna put various things together, metal, acid-jazz, trip-hop. Lots of good mixes.

And what is Reaper?

 

[kcearl]

fruity loops is not as fully functioning as many other DAWs..its a better tool for processing beats and loops..it will record audio but you will reach its limitations quickly

pro tools would be a far better choice but is much more expensive

Reaper is a full functioning DAW that'll charge you $60 to use it after a month..dont expect a load of virtual instruments with it though...any of the bigger players, cubase, sonar etc will... but for extra $$$

If you found the terminology in NinthHours post hard to follow you need to read

first of all here

http://www.tweakheadz.com/guide.htm

then try a book like "Guerilla Home Recording"

its a long road to good mixes and you need to put the work in first unfortunately..there is no quick route..but its well worth it


welcome to the site

 

[JohnnyScience]

fruity loops is not as fully functioning as many other DAWs..its a better tool for processing beats and loops..it will record audio but you will reach its limitations quickly

pro tools would be a far better choice but is much more expensive

Reaper is a full functioning DAW that'll charge you $60 to use it after a month..dont expect a load of virtual instruments with it though...any of the bigger players, cubase, sonar etc will... but for extra $$$

If you found the terminology in NinthHours post hard to follow you need to read

first of all here

http://www.tweakheadz.com/guide.htm

then try a book like "Guerilla Home Recording"

its a long road to good mixes and you need to put the work in first unfortunately..there is no quick route..but its well worth it


welcome to the site

Are there additional plugins for Reaper?

So if I want an "all-in-one" I need, Reaper, Cakewalk/Sonar or Protools? Whats up with Appls line of Logic?

If your going to pay a little more for something, which one would you get? Sonar over Reaper? But Protools over them both huh?

 

[kcearl]

Are there additional plugins for Reaper?

So if I want an "all-in-one" I need, Reaper, Cakewalk/Sonar or Protools? Whats up with Appls line of Logic?

If your going to pay a little more for something, which one would you get? Sonar over Reaper? But Protools over them both huh?

Sonar Production has more instruments than any other...I think it comes in at a whopping 14 gigs..but it is expensive..it will do everything you need..for good

Reaper is $60, it takes VSTs so adding instruments and effects to it is no problem..it is also minus the "flab" like video production tools etc..

cubase, protools, and logic are much the same as sonar..give or take a few instruments..

Ableton Live is another contender..great for performing live and as well as recording pretty much the same as the others.. it also has an separate recording area that breaks everything into loops that you can remix on the fly

Reaper, Sonar, and Ableton all have fully functioning downloadable demos that you have about a month to muck about with, I don't know about the rest..see which one you get along with best??


but dont skip that reading...its a must

 

[JohnnyScience]

Sonar Production has more instruments than any other...I think it comes in at a whopping 14 gigs..but it is expensive..it will do everything you need..for good

Reaper is $60, it takes VSTs so adding instruments and effects to it is no problem..it is also minus the "flab" like video production tools etc..

cubase, protools, and logic are much the same as sonar..give or take a few instruments..

Ableton Live is another contender..great for performing live and as well as recording pretty much the same as the others.. it also has an separate recording area that breaks everything into loops that you can remix on the fly

Reaper, Sonar, and Ableton all have fully functioning downloadable demos that you have about a month to muck about with, I don't know about the rest..see which one you get along with best??


but dont skip that reading...its a must

Well if I'm going to go say Logic or Protools, which one would you guys chose?

 

[mattr]

Well if I'm going to go say Logic or Protools, which one would you guys chose?

Logic.

$0.02

 

[JohnnyScience]

Logic.

$0.02

really? Why do you like Logic over Protools?

 

[Jeff_D]

Definately *not* ProTools. My $0.02.
All proprietary.

I haven't used Logic.

 

[gecko zzed]

Well if I'm going to go say Logic or Protools, which one would you guys chose?

Logic . . . because it is the one I first started with, is the one thatproives the finctionality that I need.

Having said that, I'm doing more and more stuff with Reaper, because it is such an incredible program. And as someone noted, it is nicely "flab-free".

PT? I've not used it.

 

[kcearl]

Well if I'm going to go say Logic or Protools, which one would you guys chose?

logic...obviously if you already own a mac

it has a mainstage application which is the only other daw other than ableton that's geared for live performance, not that you say you would use it for that but you never know

 

[EtR]

I've used Pro-Tools m-powered on a PC for several years and have invested a lot of time and money in it. But it has proved to be sooooo buggy that I've given up on it and moved on to Cubase. Unless you plan to sink plenty of cash into an LE system with Digidesign hardware don't even bother with m-powered. Just my experience. If you're on a budget check out Cubase Essential.

 

[JohnnyScience]

Doesnt apple support PC's with Logic?

So a lot of you guys actually dont like PT huh?

You've seemed to lean more towards Sonar or Cubase over the last few years?

Why so?

 

[I Got Riffs]

FL is more than just a "beat maker". It is a fully functioning DAW. You can record whatever audio you like as far as "real" instruments go. I haven't used any version earlier than FL8, but I haven't experienced any of the limitations that people seem to think it has.

 

[oretez]

Any of the big name apps (Cubase, Sonar, Ableton, Nuendo, Reaper, (& even for price tag I now include Reaper among contenders for anyone to consider); experience suggests that Sony (Vegas), Audition, Logic & FL studio are a bit more specific in appeal) will accomplish the majority tasks required of a full featured (single app) recording mixing application.

Each has strengths, each has weaknesses. Sorting which is ultimately the more appropriate choice is dependent on very specific goals and individual work processes. And, again in my experience, it remains a moving target. I stumbled into doing quite a bit of audio for video work and for a number of years found Cool Edit (now Adobe Audition) to be quite beneficial. Unfortunately with each upgrade an app that remains the premier editing application (for me) became steadily less useful in mixing to video. The app got more powerful, more feature rich but the user interface moved further and further from what had been subjectively 'great' for my early vid work; became awkward enough that it actually slowed down the process. Fortunately by that point I had enough experience that I was able to move fairly seamlessly into several different apps.

I have never found a single app that is satisfactory for all variables involved with working with audio, particularly if one is desiring to generate revenue. At the moment my core set up, excluding any mention of VST's, VSTi's, etc.; includes Reaper (for tracking and some mixing), Audition (v3 and v1.5, two very different incarnations of the same app; for editing, including 'restoration' projects, and some mixing & if forced to pretend to master), Izotope (for some editing tasks, it's audio restoration tools, with significant overlap, can produce beneficially distinct results from Audition; & when forced to pretend to master), & Melodyne for some specific editing tasks.

None of these is particularly powerful for beat matching or loop manipulation (which does not mean that Audition or Reaper can't be used for these tasks . . . but in my estimation neither was designed for them.) None of these is particularly useful for MIDI work (though Reaper, Audition and Melodyne all have some rudimentary MIDI capability). If I am primarily working with continuous tracks (e.g. bass guitar part that plays from beginning to end of tune, all tracks starting @ '0') and am using a control surface to mix no more then 18-20 tracks with any 'editing' being handled by non destruction processes I find Reaper automation to be functional. (though in some ways I still find editing Cubase automation tracks to be a tad easier, but that is based primarily on experience, not sure how I'd feel if I was starting clean at the moment). As soon as track count gets above 20-24, with a lot of clips that don't run the entire tune length with time positions that have nothing to do with start and end of song I am gradually migrating back to using Audition (with dual monitors, when I can afford one I'll introduce a touch screen at the moment and at least for a decade I use a pen tablet and large track ball as primary control surfaces with audition) (there is one significant caveat in this . . . I'm less then overjoyed with Adobes implementation of XML for session configuration files and have had two separate disasters involving corrupted XML . . . I didn't lose data, didn't lose projects but was forced to expend a lot of extra (not compensated) time to keep projects on time . . . with absolutely no support from Adobe, except perhaps contempt)

Sonar and Cubase have much better MIDI and probably VSTI support then any of my core programs. But I find both to have awkward configuration and file structures (this is purely subjective) . . . That said attempting to manage a complex (anything above 40 files with distinct start times) session without third party add on's in Audition can be a PITA.

Based on reviews I investigated Ableton and (again purely subjective) found it's interface to be nearly incomprehensible . . . just was not suited to how I worked. Nor have I ever worked with a client who used Ableton 'natively' . . .

Other then to say I'd be fairly surprised if I would ever recommend an M-powered version of PT Pro Tools remains a separate discussion. I own copies of Cubase & Sonar (and for a number of years stayed reasonable current with Samplitude) primarily to be able to import and work on client material in as nearly coherent manner as possible. Project studio (home) does not include Pro Tools, but have deliberately cultivated a decent working relationship with a commercial studio that is based around Pro Tools. If you are primarily working with your own material and keeping everything in house I can't think of a single argument to suggest using PT (and that is a much milder assessment then I would have uttered 10 & even five years ago) but as I said the entire Pro Tools debate is probably a separate discussion.

Main point of this is that no single app can satisfy any but the most rudimentary audio requirements (simply nature of the beast and why so many options that accomplish nearly the same thing continue to survive). But I'm almost OK with idea of recommending (at least with no more information then I have about what OP hopes to accomplish) Reaper to start. It is powerful, it's relatively intuitive, it's inexpensive, it has an active and responsive development team. It neither is nor pretends to be an 'editor'. It is not designed for complex loop manipulation (again doesn't lay claim to that territory). But if primary goal is recording and mixing it is hard to beat as a place to start. By time one identifies the specific limitations the app places on how you work you'll be a long way down the road to much more thorough evaluation of what you need from an app.

good luck

 

[kcearl]

Doesnt apple support PC's with Logic?

So a lot of you guys actually dont like PT huh?

You've seemed to lean more towards Sonar or Cubase over the last few years?

Why so?

Logic is Mac only as Sonar is PC only..the rest are cross platform

Pro tools is an industry standard but lagged when it came to midi..it has now caught up in this field but works only with specific interfaces in its latest incarnations..this can be seen as limiting for a home recorder

All the big boys handle things much the same..where one excels another may lag...but seriously the variations are so small you can literally pick any of them..and that's without mentioning other DAWs like Samplitude which is excellent as well (lacks instruments compared to others) Sequona, mega expensive, Sony Acid or PreSonus Studio One which includes an entire mastering area..brilliant as well but very new so perhaps buggy


then you've got the programs aimed more at entry level but no less capable for the beginner..garageband (MAC only), magix music maker, cakewalk music creator, energy XT....on and on and on

basically you just want to demo some and the first one you can record one piece of audio on...stick to it, because once you start you dont want to chop and change until you are at a level where its as easy as driving a different car..and even then money and time spent would make it stupid to move..they all do the same things in whatever level they are..

but from the genres you mentioned do not rule out ableton..I use it alongside sonar and its excellent..it has great tutorials and is an instrument in itself..demo it and see

 

[JohnnyScience]

Ok let me say this, I'm more of the computer whiz guy where as my friend is more of the muscian.

So together hopefully we make a really good team.

I cant answer the specific music related questions right now as I'm in class and hes at home.

But let me ask some things based on the computer side of it

My computer has three 19" monitors & one 46" Samsung LCD

Is there any program out there that would greatly benefit from my multiple monitor setup allowing us to multi task & be more efficient? (the rest of my hardware can handle anything that I throw at it, quad core, 8g ram etc.)

 

[JohnnyScience]

So since Fruity Loops is out

And I dont think I'm into PT for the buggy issues

Reaper sounds like a great program, I like how its bare essentials and then allows you to add any VST to it.

But I also have seen some screenshots of Cubase and it seems like a much more visually impressive/appealing software.

Sonar is still on the list too.

At this point, since all 3 are so similar, I'm probably gonig to go with whatever one has the best looking/most futuristic HUD.

Is that Cubase?

Is there a less-flab version of Cubase available, yet still allowing you to add any VST you want without being 14g worth of software like Sonar?