Distortion Guitar Clarity

[philbagg]

Hello peoples,

I'm having a bit of trouble with my distortion guitar tones. I want what nearly
every rock guitarist wants: power and clarity. A few questions on how
this is achieved though.

I like a decent amount of distortion on my guitar for power. The problem is, if
I'm playing chords, I struggle to hear the individual notes. The fundamentals
are obvious, but the higher strings can be a bit lower than i'd like them to.

Let's say, for example, I play a low E5 (E:0, A:2, D:2), it sounds fine. Now lets
say I play that chord and add in the high E and B strings (open), the higher
strings can lack clarity and the whole thing sounds like they're fighting for
definition. In other words, it sounds like crap...
I don't have this problem with clean tones.

I'm guessing (don't have my gear with me), that I should be turning down
the gain for clarity and using a compressor for power. However I'd like to hear
some thoughts from you guys

FYI, the kind of tone I'm thinking of is the rhythm guitar in this song:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h4Pk2wxkBc8
To me, it sounds powerful, yet during the pre-chorus and chorus there are
some more open chords and I can still pick out every note perfectly.

Cheers,
Phil

 

[Tadpui]

I think that you're on the right track by starting with turning down the preamp gain. The more preamp gain you pile on, in general that translates to more mudiness and indistinct notes while chording.

What kind of amp are you using? I've found that the solid-state amps I've played through suffer from that kind of problem: lack of clarity on chords with any sort of non-perfect interval. There may be a SS amp out there capable of allowing this, but I haven't heard it.

What's made the biggest difference for me is using a tube amp, a good overdrive pedal, and a guitar with good pickups. The tube amp provides lots of punch when set to relatively clean crunch settings. I use a TS9 overdrive and when I turn it on with all knobs set to 12:00, it adds a nice amount of breakup and sensitivity but still allows me to hear the individual elements of the chords.

A compressor may or may not do you much good. I find that it doesn't add much clarity, but I use a Boss CS3 mainly for added sensitivity, to hold my amp in it's sweet spot of power tube saturation, and of course for sustain. All of this without adding any distortion other than what's generated by my amp's preamp and power section.

 

[Sonixx]

clarity in an amp/speaker system is really related to IMD (Inter-modulation Distortion). the lower this characteristic the better. IMD is the amount of non-harmonically related frequencies that are generated. a lot of these totally cloud and muddy up signal.

more gain or saturation does not ensure more IMD. amps with low IMD can produce very clear signals even with significant amounts of gain. reducing the gain will have the affect of increased clarity, but that's because fewer harmonics are generated and that leads to fewer IDM generated frequencies.

I'm not saying you shouldn't reduce the gain, but that should be guided by the overall tone and feel you're after and not to fix this issue.

also OP, are you sure you have your guitar setup?

are you aware of the issues with the even tempered scale. here's a writeup on this related to guitars

Guitar Tuning Nightmares Explained

 

[Jouni]

The sample by Phillbagg sounded a lot like some kind of a distortion-pedal to me... That kind of "overly-gainyy" distortion I remember getting from a Zoom Tri-Metal pedal times ago, also, there really wasn't a lot of dynamics in that sound IMHO, more violin kinda sounds without severe picking-sounds.. Could be a modeller even...

You'll need a distortion-pedal, or a VERY high-gain tube amp.

I'd go with a solidstate pedal, the try to regain some dynamics driving it into a tube amp...

 

[ocnor]

FYI, the kind of tone I'm thinking of is the rhythm guitar in this song:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h4Pk2wxkBc8
To me, it sounds powerful, yet during the pre-chorus and chorus there are
some more open chords and I can still pick out every note perfectly.

It sounds like a Boss DS-1 and a Marshall amp. Using a pedal with the distortion set low and the level high to overdrive a distorted tube amp will yield that tone.

 

[philbagg]

I'd just like to say thanks a lot for the responses guys, much appreciated

What kind of amp are you using?

I'm using a Boss ME-50 (after years of fighting it I eventually came out with
some decent tones, great for lead stuff), into a 150w Marshall Valvestate amp
http://www.musicwarehouseonline.com.au/shop/images/P/avt150x.jpg

I started using the amp distortion on it's own (no ME-50) and I had the same
problems. Power minus clarity

I've found that the solid-state amps I've played through suffer from that kind of problem: lack of clarity on chords with any sort of non-perfect interval. There may be a SS amp out there capable of allowing this, but I haven't heard it.

Preaching to the choir my friend

clarity in an amp/speaker system is really related to IMD (Inter-modulation Distortion). the lower this characteristic the better. IMD is the amount of non-harmonically related frequencies that are generated. a lot of these totally cloud and muddy up signal.

more gain or saturation does not ensure more IMD. amps with low IMD can produce very clear signals even with significant amounts of gain. reducing the gain will have the affect of increased clarity, but that's because fewer harmonics are generated and that leads to fewer IDM generated frequencies.

I'm not saying you shouldn't reduce the gain, but that should be guided by the overall tone and feel you're after and not to fix this issue.

I'm new to this subject so this might be a silly question but is there any
way to alter this characteristic?

also OP, are you sure you have your guitar setup?

are you aware of the issues with the even tempered scale. here's a writeup on this related to guitars

Guitar Tuning Nightmares Explained

I'm not quite sure I fully understand what you mean here. I read the link and
while a lot of it was beneficial to know, on a separate note, I'm not sure of
the correlation between the two points. Other than that, I'm fairly sure my
guitar's set up properly.

The sample by Phillbagg sounded a lot like some kind of a distortion-pedal to me... That kind of "overly-gainyy" distortion I remember getting from a Zoom Tri-Metal pedal times ago, also, there really wasn't a lot of dynamics in that sound IMHO, more violin kinda sounds without severe picking-sounds.. Could be a modeller even...

You'll need a distortion-pedal, or a VERY high-gain tube amp.

I'd go with a solidstate pedal, the try to regain some dynamics driving it into a tube amp...

It sounds like a Boss DS-1 and a Marshall amp. Using a pedal with the distortion set low and the level high to overdrive a distorted tube amp will yield that tone.

Thanks guys, I'll try these tips when I get my gear back. It's in the practice
shed at the moment

Just a few more questions.
1) Would pickups make a huge impact on individual note clarity?
2) How do string width and string "age" (how long they've been on the geetar)
affect clarity?
3) Can amp mic placement improve note clarity or just tone?

Thanks again to everyone, I appreciate it

 

[Jouni]

I'd say, that the pickups and their adjustments have the most significance, the string gauges also, but the mic placement the least, when it comes to clarity of notes.

I for one use .014 strings by D'Addario, tried some .013 "Zakk Wylde"-set, and discarded them because I couldn't hear the thinner strings at all, plus they didn't last. The pickup height will do alot also.

 

[DrewPeterson7]

I'm guessing (don't have my gear with me), that I should be turning down
the gain for clarity and using a compressor for power. However I'd like to hear
some thoughts from you guys

You don't necessarily need a compressor, though with a solid state amp maybe. A tube rig, and the power amp will provide some natural compression, especially as it comes up.

Can't really listen to your clips, but thinking out loud here, you might want to try layering a number of tones together. If you like the "power" that comes from a tight power chord with tons of gain, but feel that it falls apart if you start playing full chords, then one thing I'd try if it works for the arrangement would be to record two tracks of full chords with a fairly clean tone, and then another two of powerchords with your higher gain sound. Keep the performances tight enough, and this could potentially sound huge.

I'll try to give it a listen tonight, though. :yesway:

 

[lollygagger8]

I would try using the pedal on the clean channel of that amp, or the amp's distortion. Both on top of each other doesn't sound good at all. Sorry.

Also, I agree with everyone else. Turn the distortion down. It will translate better recorded.

Change strings first. Try DR's....they sound fantastic.

Mic placement will only get you so far. If the sound sucks at the mic, it'll suck coming out.

As fas as pickups, it makes a huge difference! What kind are you using? If you say EMG, take em out and throw them in the garbage lol. Seymour Duncan (not duncan designed) are very articulate. Gibson Burstbucker, or PAF's are always a great choice. PRS makes excellent pickups as well.

 

[DrewPeterson7]

I would try using the pedal on the clean channel of that amp, or the amp's distortion. Both on top of each other doesn't sound good at all. Sorry.

Also, I agree with everyone else. Turn the distortion down. It will translate better recorded.

Change strings first. Try DR's....they sound fantastic.

Mic placement will only get you so far. If the sound sucks at the mic, it'll suck coming out.

As fas as pickups, it makes a huge difference! What kind are you using? If you say EMG, take em out and throw them in the garbage lol. Seymour Duncan (not duncan designed) are very articulate. Gibson Burstbucker, or PAF's are always a great choice. PRS makes excellent pickups as well.

A lot of that is personal opinion masquerading as fact, though.

Fresh strings definitely make a difference, yes. DR's? They may be your favorite, but if he prefers Ernie Ball's then switching to DRs won't make him any happier with his recorded tone.

I'm not really an EMG fan myself, but plenty of guys get phenominal tones out of them (listen to some Nevermore), and for better or for worse they're VERY articulate. My problem with them is that they're so bright they're very articulate under high gain, but they're too sharp and spikey for lower gain applications... Meanwhile, I can't say I've ever cared for PRS or Gibson pickups, but that has more to do with the guitars they're in (neither of which are really my thing) and the sounds I go for (Gibson, in particular, tends to be pretty dark) than any "quality" of the pickups themselves.

Also, a lot of guys swear by using a boost in front of a distorted amp. The Any Sneap school of thought, in fact, is to use a TS9 in front of a Rectifier as a slight gain boost, but mostly as a pre-EQ. I don't do it much, but it's kind of fun (and very huge-sounding) to layer boosted rhythm tracks against non-boosted ones, and it subtly changes the response of the amp, which can be kind of cool.

 

[philbagg]

Thanks for the responses guys

I'd say, that the pickups and their adjustments have the most significance, the string gauges also, but the mic placement the least, when it comes to clarity of notes.

I for one use .014 strings by D'Addario, tried some .013 "Zakk Wylde"-set, and discarded them because I couldn't hear the thinner strings at all, plus they didn't last. The pickup height will do alot also.

Those are some thick-ass strings man. I'm using 0.10 at the moment and was considering going down to 0.09s. What do ya reckon?

you might want to try layering a number of tones together. If you like the "power" that comes from a tight power chord with tons of gain, but feel that it falls apart if you start playing full chords, then one thing I'd try if it works for the arrangement would be to record two tracks of full chords with a fairly clean tone, and then another two of powerchords with your higher gain sound. Keep the performances tight enough, and this could potentially sound huge.

I was thinking about doing something like that before. Although more along the
lines of doing the exact same take twice except one being high-gain and the
other one just being "a little crunchy" and blending the two. I shall keep you
posted, maybe post up an mp3 of my endeavours

I would try using the pedal on the clean channel of that amp, or the amp's distortion. Both on top of each other doesn't sound good at all. Sorry.


As fas as pickups, it makes a huge difference! What kind are you using? If you say EMG, take em out and throw them in the garbage lol. Seymour Duncan (not duncan designed) are very articulate. Gibson Burstbucker, or PAF's are always a great choice. PRS makes excellent pickups as well.

I agree with what you're saying about one distortion into another, so I never
do it I tend to run the pedal into the clean channel and keep it at a
decent amount of gain so that it doesn't distort going into the amp aswell.
Although, maybe a little experimentation is called for

I know I'm gonna sound stupid for this, being a guitar player of about 6 years
now, but I know f**k-all about them. I'm not sure about the pickups, but if
it's any help, they look like this........
http://www.jmarr.com/johnny-marr/images/uploads/1959-Gibson-Les-Paul.jpg

Also, a lot of guys swear by using a boost in front of a distorted amp. The Any Sneap school of thought, in fact, is to use a TS9 in front of a Rectifier as a slight gain boost, but mostly as a pre-EQ. I don't do it much, but it's kind of fun (and very huge-sounding) to layer boosted rhythm tracks against non-boosted ones, and it subtly changes the response of the amp, which can be kind of cool.

I have an old Boss ME-30 (great pedal IMO, but the DC in is a little screwed so
I use it sparingly) http://www.premierguitar.com/Stream/StreamImage.aspx?Image_ID=18947&type=gear&Image_Type=full

Do you think I could use this to boost the gain on the way into the amp? It
has EQ aswell but it's minimal (we're talking "bass" "mid" and "treble" here).

I have a lot of experimenting to do when I get my gear back, I may even print
off this thread just to have it with me

Thanks again guys,
Phil

 

[Zaphod B]

Phil, what kind of guitar and pickups are you using?

It's a common characteristic of neck-position humbuckers to get kind of "wooly" - the bottom end tends to get a little out of hand and muddies up everything else - when you are using much more than moderate levels of distortion. If this is the situation, you can try to use less attack on the lower-pitched strings so that they don't overpower the others, roll back the volume on the guitar, and/or bring down the gain on your rig.

If you are having this problem with bridge-position pickups I would say that you have way too much bottom end cranked into your rig.

 

[philbagg]

Phil, what kind of guitar and pickups are you using?

It's a common characteristic of neck-position humbuckers to get kind of "wooly" - the bottom end tends to get a little out of hand and muddies up everything else - when you are using much more than moderate levels of distortion. If this is the situation, you can try to use less attack on the lower-pitched strings so that they don't overpower the others, roll back the volume on the guitar, and/or bring down the gain on your rig.

If you are having this problem with bridge-position pickups I would say that you have way too much bottom end cranked into your rig.

This is the guitar
http://www.guitar-museum.com/uploads/guitar/160/45779-1.jpg
Whooooops.... looks like I forgot what my own guitar looked like, I posted a pic
of a guitar earlier with the wrong pickups.... Silly me

I'll try out your method though. Cheers dude

 

[Zaphod B]

OK, so it's a Les Paul-type guitar with humbuckers.

If it is in fact the neck-position humbucker you are dealing with, the situation is as I described and you'll either have to deal with it as I mentioned earlier, or switch to another pickup position.

Alternately, a pickup upgrade might help.

 

[Zaphod B]

Oops, forgot to mention that you might try lowering the bass side of that pickup, or screwing in the poles on that side.

 

[philbagg]

Well I nearly always use the bridge pickup, unless I'm feeling a little bluesy

That's not actually my guitar btw When I come into some funds I might bring
it to a guitar shop, I wouldn't dare touch it myself. As I mentioned earlier, me am clueless

 

[Zaphod B]

YOu can't hurt anything by trying to lower or raise the pickups, even on a stolen guitar.

It's the screws on the sides of the pickups, on the pickup ring. Try lowering that bridge pickup a little and see if the situation improves. If not, raise it back to where it was.

 

[philbagg]

YOu can't hurt anything by trying to lower or raise the pickups, even on a stolen guitar.

It's the screws on the sides of the pickups, on the pickup ring. Try lowering that bridge pickup a little and see if the situation improves. If not, raise it back to where it was.

I meant that the one in the pic is not MY particular guitar

I'll give it a bash, but if I screw it up, I'm sending you a bill for repairs and some
trauma compensation

 

[Zaphod B]

I meant that the one in the pic is not MY particular guitar

I'll give it a bash, but if I screw it up, I'm sending you a bill for repairs and some
trauma compensation

Sure, no problem. Send your bill to:

MINISTER OF FINANCE
REPUBLIC OF NIGERIA
100 PRESIDENTIAL ROW
ABUJA, NIGERIA

Be sure to include your bank routing information so I can properly "imburse" you.

 

[philbagg]

Sure, no problem. Send your bill to:

MINISTER OF FINANCE
REPUBLIC OF NIGERIA
100 PRESIDENTIAL ROW
ABUJA, NIGERIA

Be sure to include your bank routing information so I can properly "imburse" you.

Wait a minute... Your location says Texas!!

FRAUD ALERT!!