nOOb question about how to record singing at a decent quality

[kcearl]

I'm not wandering off...but discretion is the better part of valor.

While I do agree that you were the one who offered up the "cheap" suggestions to the OP...
...the "worldly sages" were looking more at the "big picture", something that might provide more permanent solutions and better understanding.
Maybe I’m wrong, but from your last line above...I get the feeling that you don't have very much respect for anything other than your own opinions, which is certainly one way to go, though I think here, on these particular forums, a noob audience may be the only one that will applaud them.

I have no desire to keep going back-n-forth with you, rather I was just pointing out that you've also done your part to be snooty and full of attitude, so it’s rather hypocritical for you to be attacking the “worldly sages”…. …not to mention, trying to sift through the whole thread about who-said-what-first is pointless, since you also appear to be of the belief that all the "worldly sages" are just trying to give noobs a hard time, and little else...
…and IMO, therein lies the fallacy of your attitude.
I'll be honest...there is really nothing that you've said in this thread that was of any real bonafied value/help to the noob....you just tossed out a couple of equipment suggestions, which most anyone can do. So don’t be so quick to take a bow!

How about everyone just takes a step back and focuses more on the actual point that is being made about "cheap/easy" approaches instead of who-said-what….?
I think THAT is where the real answers are.
AFA the OP...I don't think he's really sure all that much about anything that he is doing (and I don't mean that disrespectfully)...so just tossing out equipment suggestions won't solve any of his problems or answer his questions. He could get that advice from dozens of "cheap" ads in most audio magazines...which is the point Glen was just making.
Do we want fantasy or reality (in recording)?

How about some beers all the way around….

Well I wrote a long post in answer to your drivel (see I can use them to) but Ive decided against posting it in the hope that the thread will die eventually..

It would appear the wee gang will stick together through thick and thin regardless...an admirable quality

I will refrain from sharing any foolish opinions I have on the cheap gear I use and make a wide birth so you guys can lead us all to that great recording utopia in the sky...just check your ego's at the door or there wont be room for a waif like me let alone anyone else

I'm sorry but I'm particular who I share beers with..I'll stick with the relative noobs, they have a modicum of humour and humility

 

[kcearl]

Don't worry about what a piece of gear costs use your ears and then decide. Some cheap gear sounds fantastic. Its more about how you use it than about how much it costs.

I have a cheap ass Leem active Di-Box that makes my bass sound way way better than through my BSS AR-133 which costs 6 times the price. I must say however that the BSS is very well made and is used by many pros but IMO I think it sounds dull and lifeless.

Watch it noob, you sound like you know what you're talking about

 

[darrin_h2000]

I thought that since Im being mentioned here as an elitist...Id try to help the OP...Dont buy a mic...rent an hour or two in a local studio where you will have access to a nice room and some nice mics and preamps...that usually costs arround 40 bucks an hour and if you know the vocals well you might just whip it out quickly...so practice.

Whatever you read in books like Behind the glass its all about the room...mic...preamp combination...beware of devices that use tubes as lights...it takes alot more voltage to utilize a tube correctly than what can be drawn from a wall wart...tubes are just marketing gimmicks to sell to the people who dont know better in those devices.

 

[miroslav]

Don't worry about what a piece of gear costs use your ears and then decide. Some cheap gear sounds fantastic. Its more about how you use it than about how much it costs.

Thanks...that's a very old perspective that we know all too well.

I don't worry about *good* inexpensive gear…but "cheap" gear is something else...and it's all relative, isn't it?
I mean...when you've had a chance to use a lot of great high-end gear, and you then find some something inexpensive that sounds great, your comparison has a good reference point.
Too often, many of the low-budget home recording types only have access to the inexpensive/marginal stuff...so their perspectives are not necessarily 100% valid, IMO.
I have a wide mix of gear..from the inexpensive to the high-end, and I agree that you have to take every piece on its own, but relatively speaking, the majority of inexpensive recording gear shows its faults easy enough once you know what to listen for.
When I had $300 mics, I thought they were great…then I got some $800 mics and thought they blew away the others…until I got a $1600 mic and realized what I was missing.
But I still use the other mics…I just know when and what to use them for now.

There was no "cheap-but-fantastic" gear mentioned anywhere in this thread that I noticed (not counting what you said about your DIs).

Again...there still seems to be a continuing, underlying belief/attitude by some in this thread that the more experienced and involved studio guys are just giving noobs a hard time and making up all this shit about proper techniques and good gear VS "cheap gear"....?

 

[kcearl]

Again...there still seems to be a continuing, underlying belief/attitude by some in this thread that the more experienced and involved studio guys are just giving noobs a hard time and making up all this shit about proper techniques and good gear VS "cheap gear"....?

yeah that'll be it

 

[miroslav]

...I'll stick with the relative noobs, they have a modicum of humour and humility

I guess that's something...

 

[Steenamaroo]

does it work to say that cheap/good/quality/expensive etc etc are all relative,

and then say that no one has mentioned any cheap but fantastic gear on this thread?

i still reckon the sm7b is a candidate but then, it's cheap to alan sugar, but not to a homeless guy,,so is it cheap??

and it sounded fantastic when kiedis used it, but not when my ma did.....so is it fantastic?

i just don't know anymore...

 

[miroslav]

does it work to say that cheap/good/quality/expensive etc etc are all relative,

and then say that no one has mentioned any cheap but fantastic gear on this thread?

No one mentioned any "cheap but fantastic" gear as a solution to the OP's problem....that's what I meant.

And it's not about it being relative to your personal budget...rather, relative to high-end gear you've personally used.

 

[kcearl]

This is all about giving an older member a bit of a flaming over his perceived rudeness and little to do with anything else...

I read up on much of what I buy...I get it wrong sometimes (the MIC100 is a noisy little bugger) but I get it right more often than not..

The ART Tube project series is a good product..period

no it doesn't compete with expensive gear, no it wont be found in a professional studio, yes its is cheap..

It also scores highly in Music Tech where I first read up on it..and Im sorry Ill take their opinion over many here

from the review

"Obviously, the main reason for buying
a tube preamp is the sound. We
conducted our tests with a quality
condenser mic, and the TUBE MP
Project Series w/USB performed
remarkably well, imparting a
roundness to the sound of what is
usually a very accurate, but
unflattering vocal microphone."

wow really...the fools they should have checked here first...funny I get a similar result with a B1 and a e845..

"It’s difficult to fault this versatile
little device. It’s affordable, highly
portable, works extremely well with
electric guitars and basses, and even
doubles as a stage DI box (although it
doesn’t have power on/off and
ground-lift switches). If it’s hooked up
to a small mixer you can, at a pinch,
even use it as an all-in-one recording
interface. But that wasn’t ART’s
intention – it’s not dual-channel and it
doesn’t have built-in monitoring. It’s
still a great preamp, though, and it’s
best at doing what it was originally
designed to do: add subtle warmth
and character to vocal recordings and
acoustic instruments."

My gawd those noobs at reviewing gear used the warmth word..they should have checked with the geniuses here

In summary

"WHY BUY
■ Good sound quality
■ Compact and light
■ USB output
■ Effective limiter

WALK ON BY
■ No headphone monitoring
■ Not dual-channel

VERDICT
An excellent valve preamp for home
studios with the added bonus of a USB
output.

★ ★ ★ ★ ★ ★ ★★★ ★

MusicTech MAGAZINE November 2006 73"


Bunch of liars...

 

[darrin_h2000]

MusicTech MAGAZINE November 2006 73"[/B]


Bunch of liars...

Take that as tounge in cheek...they do have to sell advertising space to these companies and one thing Ive never seen in Magazines that sell pages of ad space is a lousy review.

 

[kcearl]

Take that as tounge in cheek...they do have to sell advertising space to these companies and one thing Ive never seen in Magazines that sell pages of ad space is a lousy review.

It's a mass conspiracy...everyones lying lol


Thanks mate, you are right...the ones that get shite reviews are the ones that dont advertise...in fact browsing through the few copies of Music Tech lying here Ive seen literally zero ART advertisements...maybe it is a good product? maybe it actually works? maybe you are as big a dupe as that guy who thinks Behringer don't make any decent products...

oops... hang on...you are that fellow...doh!

 

[darrin_h2000]

It's a mass conspiracy...everyones lying lol
!

He gets it...this just might be the smartest post you have ever typed out...you cant trust the advertising Machine...the reps...paid magazine reviewers...and everyone else that looks at you and just sees a wallet.

You can usually trust those of us who come here with our opinions...the true secret to knowing how people really feel about using this stuff is to go to Musicians Friend dot com...find the product...then click on the used tab...the number of availible products there will tell you how many people have bought the stuff...tried it...then returned it...that number wont lie to you.

 

[kcearl]

FTR some products reviewed

Ultrasone proline headphones 6/10 (270 pounds, ooh tad expensive)

Big Fish Audio Electron Smasher 5/10 (with advertising space no less)

Shure SE115 headphones 6/10

to be honest with you many of the loop/sample products out there score quite lowely sometimes and they are regular advertisers but when this months MT features reviews on

Record
Elektron Monomachine
Axiom Pro
APS 10 Active monitors
Sonar V studio and
Kurweil PC361

you really think they are making up these good reviews, is it all smoke and mirrors?

 

[kcearl]

He gets it...this just might be the smartest post you have ever typed out...you cant trust the advertising Machine...the reps...paid magazine reviewers...and everyone else that looks at you and just sees a wallet.

You can usually trust those of us who come here with our opinions...the true secret to knowing how people really feel about using this stuff is to go to Musicians Friend dot com...find the product...then click on the used tab...the number of availible products there will tell you how many people have bought the stuff...tried it...then returned it...that number wont lie to you.

Is that a ratio figure? is it against per units sold? Is the ART tube MP project in amongst the highest returned...please tell me no!

Ill take my chances...as ive said earlier I expect one to go bang someday but Im not blinkered, niave, or wealthy enough to not use them now


(pssst lets face it...its because you hate the chinese..you can tell me I wont tell anyone)

 

[kcearl]

Damn you were right about musicians friend...they loved it

Thumbs-up

We were amazed at the smooth warmth we got with the Tube MP Project Series. Our song sounded amazing with the fattened signal and, as I said earlier, I just couldn't believe such an affordable tube mic preamp could sound so good. Similar tube preamps can cost many times as much, and the warm tone the Tube MP Project Series puts out is fantastic. I think my backup singer has been converted to a Tube MP junkie--she loved the openness and warmth it gave her voice.

A.R.T. set a high standard for affordable, quality tube mic preamps back in '96 that no one has come close to beating to this day. Except A.R.T., of course. The new A.R.T. Tube MP Project Series raises the bar yet again and is a must-have processor to add to your home or project studio rack. I kept the demo unit and I am very happy to have it.

and they said warmth...idiots


The users also gave it a combined 5/5 over 18 reviews...seems they loved it too

Couldnt find any returns v units sold Im afraid


Damn those fools...quick get on there and give them a link to here

 

[darrin_h2000]

1/10...2/10...3/10...is a lousy review....5/10...6/10 is more of a satisfactory review...something that is still based about as much on what advertizing revenue they can sell.

take the ART tube MP for instance...alot of us bought one in the 90s so we know how noisy and unusable it is...but if ART brought me a briefcase full of cash...Ill post like Im the biggest ART fanatic that ever lived.

A lot of the time the review itself is the advertizing.

 

[darrin_h2000]

Damn you were right about musicians friend...they loved it



and they said warmth...idiots


The users also gave it a combined 5/5 over 18 reviews...seems they loved it too

Couldnt find any returns v units sold Im afraid


Damn those fools...quick get on there and give them a link to here

I didnt say read the review...I said to check out how many used ones they have to sell...heck we have people here that rave about Behringer mics...but that just tells me they dont know what a good mic should sound like...anybody who does know what a usable pre sounds like didnt buy the product in the first place.

 

[kcearl]

1/10...2/10...3/10...is a lousy review....5/10...6/10 is more of a satisfactory review...something that is still based about as much on what advertizing revenue they can sell.

take the ART tube MP for instance...alot of us bought one in the 90s so we know how noisy and unusable it is...but if ART brought me a briefcase full of cash...Ill post like Im the biggest ART fanatic that ever lived.

A lot of the time the review itself is the advertizing.

Thats an item that is more than ten years old Im talking about the "ART tube MP Project series"...thats like comparing what Toyota were making in '96 to now..completely different products in terms of technology and workmanship

and scores depend on overall scores...if most are in the upper regions then 5 is a bad score...regardless of what your opinion is on it (ever studied stats?)

Hey I know you dont want to admit you're wrong...after all that would show some signs of emotional maturity...but you could just let it drop..Ive got all night to bicker..Im only mucking about with Ableton tonight

(Tell me are you holed up in a log cabin in Montana waiting to fight of the guvment when they come to get your guns? )

 

[kcearl]

I didnt say read the review...I said to check out how many used ones they have to sell...heck we have people here that rave about Behringer mics...but that just tells me they dont know what a good mic should sound like...anybody who does know what a usable pre sounds like didnt buy the product in the first place.

No you tell me the ratio of ART MP tube Project series units returned compared to sold...you show me a bad review..Im not talking about Behringer mics anywhere here dooooood

BTW where did you glean that gem that all reviews are advertising, that there are no real reviews in magazines...seriously where did you find the proof..c'mon share with me, I'd love to know

 

[darrin_h2000]

Most of the good products dont have any returns at all...you should base things on that.

You can also look at the incidents of a real studio with a certain peice on thier gear lists...or what has been used by the big time hitmakers.

Havent you ever thought that just maybe if that cheaply made unuseable stuff were any good the pros would be using them?...like that one guy said who couldnt tell the difference in quality between a Behringer and a Neumann U87...dont you think all the pros would have lockers full of behringers?

Why would I admit I was wrong to a guy who is wrong most of the time...we can agree to disagree...and soon down the line when you mature at this you will agree...dont forget...I was a newb once too.