Why digital is superior to analog

[Lt. Bob]

The majority of newbs believe that the only thing standing between them noodling around in the garage with their friends and fame as a Platinum-selling superband is the right "mastering software" preset.

I think it's great personally. The lack of upcoming competition is why, at age 58, I can still gig 5-7 nights a week. I'm mainly talking about live work, of course. Byt the premise holds true. Those of us from an era where we had to really hone our skills can still work when there was a time that older players were out of luck as the new better guys trickled in. Now, not as big an issue.

 

[SouthSIDE Glen]

I think it's great personally. The lack of upcoming competition is why, at age 58, I can still gig 5-7 nights a week. I'm mainly talking about live work, of course. Byt the premise holds true. Those of us from an era where we had to really hone our skills can still work when there was a time that older players were out of luck as the new better guys trickled in. Now, not as big an issue.

Maybe you have it luckier down there on the bayou, famous for quality old-school musicianship.

Up here in Chi-town, even with our legacy of music which, while maybe not quite that of Nawleens, is pretty rich, it's getting tougher for the better musicians to regularly gig in the local joints.

Let me give you a perfect example; I got an e-mail I got a couple of months ago from the front man for one of the best local bar bands in terms of the quality of the individual musicians around. Unfortunately, the lead singer has since moved to Austin, TX, and the band is officially, publicly no more. I think part of the reason the guy didn't sick around any longer was because the band had a hard time finding the right place for regular gigs. In the e-mail the guy was looking for a funky joint with a good vibe that was NOT a sports bar, did not have TVs on all over the place while the band played, had at least a somewhat decent stage, and had a clientele over 30 years of age.

I understand completely why he asked for this stuff, because places that did not match those criteria they tended to get only mediocre audience reaction from, because the audience just was not that interested in hearing great musicians playing a non-Clear Channel playlist.

I also had to reply to him that about the only neighborhood places left around these parts that fit his description were churches.

These guys still get gigs as session cats and run a branch of The School of Rock, but even the session gigs are getting harder to get because of the slow replacement of brick n' mortar studios with self-recorders who think they can comp a quality performance out of their own wankage with enough digital editing.

God, I know I sound like Chicken Little saying the world is coming to an immediate end, and I really don't mean to sound quite that "apocalyptic", as it has been called. But I gotta say that just about every leading indicator on the state of music I can think of is trending negative, many (but not all) of which have been doing so since long before my time.

G.

 

[Beck]

Can't find any online links - Massenburg was criticizing the quality of digital audio (generally).

Mostly I'm curious if he just cut and pasted my on-line musings and took credit for it like I find a lot of other people have. I would just think great minds think alike, but they don't even put it in their own words... it's mine verbatim. Very annoying.

 

[mshilarious]

Mostly I'm curious if he just cut and pasted my on-line musings and took credit for it like I find a lot of other people have. I would just think great minds think alike, but they don't even put it in their own words... it's mine verbatim. Very annoying.

Yeah, Massenburg probably cribbed some of your inventions, too

Here is a relevant link if a bad transcription (beats = bits):

http://absy.com/ABSMMI/ITV/MASSENBURG/ukitvgmass.html#anchor1774480

 

[noisewreck]

The music industry will survive, it's music that worries me.

I think you got it backwards. In fact, I don't care if music industry survives or not. Anytime you have the word "industry" stuck to the arts, it reeks of cookie-cutter, easily-appeal-to-the-masses nonsense.

Music on the other hand has existed since the prehumans, and likely even pre-Neanderthals, in the form of vocalizations and drumming of some sort. It is in human nature, and it is independent of recording mediums, consoles, concert halls, stadiums and all that.

 

[SouthSIDE Glen]

I think you got it backwards. In fact, I don't care if music industry survives or not. Anytime you have the word "industry" stuck to the arts, it reeks of cookie-cutter, easily-appeal-to-the-masses nonsense.

Music on the other hand has existed since the prehumans, and likely even pre-Neanderthals, in the form of vocalizations and drumming of some sort. It is in human nature, and it is independent of recording mediums, consoles, concert halls, stadiums and all that.

I wasn't making a judgment call on the industry vs. music. I'm with you; as long as my buddy and I can get together over the back yard fire pit, him with his acoustic, and maybe I can blow a little awful harp along with him, I'm happy, and at that moment couldn't care less what happens down in the Clear Channel or LiveNation boardrooms.

But there's one problem with that complacency. The Neanderthals didn't have someone else deciding what they played or listened to. Ever increasingly, on a punctuated curve since the beginning of recorded music some hundred or so years ago, the type of music that becomes popular and even (to a degree) survives in recorded form - and therefore now also in organized live performance form - has more and more become decided not on musical terms, but on economic terms. At the same time, the number of folks making these decisions has gotten smaller and smaller.

The more and longer this goes on, the less variety the public gets exposed to and the less of a muse they have to work with from that source.

Music may continue, but so far, I see it's homogenization continuing as well. Mozarts and Ellingtons and Dylans will continue to be born, sure; and some of them will get their stuff heard by a signifigant number of folks; and who knows, may even overturn things and cause a musical revolution. But the environment is becoming increasing hostile and decreasingly nurturing to that kind of development.

G.

 

[Bguzaldo]

Do we really have to decide which is better? Can't we use the process itself as a tool? Like do I use a u87 or an sm7? Do I record digital or analog? Both have a sound and both can be used practically and applied correctly...Just like mic placement or any other decision. Obviously its quite expensive to have both of these "tools" at your disposal...

 

[Beck]

Yeah, Massenburg probably cribbed some of your inventions, too

Probably not, because except for one, my patents are in a different area of expertise. But then you never know.

Thanks for the link.

 

[Beck]

Thanks for the link.

Wait... that's from 1991.

 

[mshilarious]

Probably not, because except for one, my patents are in a different area of expertise. But then you never know.

Thanks for the link.

Are you the medical device guy, the medical software guy, or the electric meter guy? There are a few of you out there

Also, what's the audio patent, I had no luck there

Wait... that's from 1991.

So? He talks about digital audio.

 

[Beck]

Are you the medical device guy, the medical software guy, or the electric meter guy? There are a few of you out there

Also, what's the audio patent, I had no luck there

I'm the military/police infrared equipment and firearms guy. There's only one of me. I do sometimes scare myself when I see another one of me when I wake in the middle of the night and pass the mirror. I almost called the police at least twice and took a shot at myself once.

So? He talks about digital audio.

Well, we were all looking forward to digital as an unknown, but with some youthful optimism in 1991.

I'm interested in what he's saying now about how digital ruined the music industry and why he's saying that.

That was a fun link though just to look back at what he thought at the time... what many people thought. Though sometimes it's even funnier to read what some people believe now.

 

[Dogman]

Do we really have to decide which is better? ...

Yes, those are the rules of online arguing. And rules is rules.

 

[noisewreck]

Music may continue, but so far, I see it's homogenization continuing as well. Mozarts and Ellingtons and Dylans will continue to be born, sure; and some of them will get their stuff heard by a signifigant number of folks; and who knows, may even overturn things and cause a musical revolution. But the environment is becoming increasing hostile and decreasingly nurturing to that kind of development.

I agree with you on this. Yes, the environment is becoming increasingly hostile, and unfortunately it is becoming increasingly difficult to make a living as a musician and anyone involved in the recording business. It is also unfortunate that people such as Tim Exile (who's Reaktor instrument, Vectory is part of the NI Reaktor package BTW) will be lucky if they bring in $20,000 a year, doing what they do. Although one can argue that this has always been the case with music. The ones that have truly innovated always lived in poverty, pop acts of the past 1960's notwithstanding. But even then, the ones making the most buck have usually been the ones catering to the lowest common denominator, and 90% of them I can say haven't really added much artistic value to music at large.

This is why there is an increasing backlash, with the number of underground music genres and subgenres multiplying exponentially, as they cater to increasingly narrower group of listeners. And for many of them, the outlets are MySpace, Soundclick and other similar sites. Sure, the S/N ratio of these sites is extremely high, but there are some acts on these sites that are absolut gems, and they would never get the change to be heard if it was up to the corporate bean counters.

There is a paradigm shift that's going on right now, and to me it is for the better. More and more people are actively searching for stuff that THEY like, instead of waiting to be fed through radio and MTV which have all but become jokes.

Yes, certain knowledge is perhaps being lost when it comes to recording. At the same time, new ways of doing things are emerging and being developed, that are perhaps more relevant to today's world.

 

[noisewreck]

I don't much care that they didn't pan out as an "instrument"...I'm just pissed about the $5k I dropped on my S1000HD, and I had to have the extra RAM, a whopping 8MB!!!
Not to mention the huge library (on floppy disks) to go with it....

Talk about a poor purchase decision...but that's using 20-20 hindsight.
At the time...it was DA SHIT!


I still have it...sitting in the rack. I thought about selling it on eBay a couple of times, but came to the conclusion that shipping cost would be greater than the selling price!!!
So...it sits there….
Every once in awhile I fire it up and use it for a cheesy synth pad or some sound FX noise candy on one of my recordings…JUST to feel like I’m getting something out of my “investment”…but not too often.

When the LCD screen eventually goes completely dark...then I'll pull it.
But they still offer replacements...which also cost more than I would get for the whole thing on eBay!!!

If you are referring to the Akai S-1000, then this post says a lot more about you than the instrument itself. In any case, I am sure The Chemical Brothers, Fatboy Slim, Crystal Method and many many more would strongly disagree with you.

 

[Beck]

Yes, those are the rules of online arguing. And rules is rules.

It's worse than that. We can't even unregister from homerecording.com until we settle the digital/analog issue once and for all. It's in the fine print in terms of use. That's the only reason I'm still here.

 

[Beck]

See where I am going with this?

Yes... to the mid 1700s to early/mid 1800s.

 

[noisewreck]

I agree that digital is in most cases faster to use, but I prefer the feel of the faders and tape in my hand, I guess it gives me some sense of one with the music process.

I am confused. Can't you feel the faders with a digital console (say a Sony Oxford, if you can afford one ) and you can feel the tape "in your hand" with uh... Sony PCM3348HR

 

[miroslav]

If you are referring to the Akai S-1000, then this post says a lot more about you than the instrument itself. In any case, I am sure The Chemical Brothers, Fatboy Slim, Crystal Method and many many more would strongly disagree with you.

Disagree with what exactly....that you couldn't sell one on eBay for a $100 these days?

S-1000HD - Starting bid - $40



I didn't say it was a bad sampler...I just said that I don't use it much these days, mostly 'cuz I got away from the whole sampler/MIDI thing about 10-15 years ago, not long after I bought the damn thing...so yeah, it was a bad purchasing decision. I wish I had the $5000 right now instead of the sampler sitting in my rack.

 

[noisewreck]

I'm glad I grew up with tape and analog gear, rather than to be just getting into it all at this point in time.

By this same logic, if someone wanted to be a great pianist, they would have to study harpsichord first? And I suppose one couldn't be a great cellist unless they studied the viola da gamba first, right?

... Errr... Gosh Beck, now I am going even further back... to the 1400-1500s?

Most of those 90% have no real foundation...they are just mousing around and assuming a lot of the work will be done by the software.
But digital can be good...with the right foundation going in....

I agree with you on this. But what does growing up with tape and analog gear have anything to do with it? Growing up with tape and analog gear should not and is not a prerequisite for someone to be a good musician or a recording engineer in the past, now or in the future. Of course having knowledge of these systems is always good as it expands the horisons of individuals. More knowledge never hurt anyone and I am all for knowledge. And hopefully this will be taught in music engineering courses as part of "music technology of the past" history curriculum

However, what IS a prerequisite for someone to be a good musician or a recording engineer in any era is good ear, artistic inclination, diligence and willingness to put in the countless hours and hard work to hone their skills. Once you have these covered, then you need great teachers and mentors that can develop young talent.

And it is with that last part that the bedroom musician/engineer/"producer" that is severely handicapped with. And this can be remedied by properly structured schools. Unfortunately many of the so called "audio engineering" schools are flawed. A while ago, I went to check out Los Angeles Recording Workshop, and I was horrified that they had students practice mixing using headphones. In a sense, I think these courses should be structured more like private lessons, just like you'd get when learning to play an instrument, even at college level.

In short, instead of lamenting that people don't feel tape with their fingers anymore, we should be lamenting that there is no proper, structured schooling for the new generation to learn the skills, using modern equipment.

Just because in the past this was done at big studios where a young, hopeful person would go to empty ashtrays, get sandwitches and deal with assholes in hopes that they would be able to peak through the window or be lucky enough to sit in the control room with the engineers to learn anything, doesn't mean that this is the ONLY way to learn the craft.

Sure gaining experience in the studio is great, but ultimately that kind of particular experience may not necessarily be what's needed in today's world.

Technical knowledge and skill however, is. And that can be learned if such courses are structured properly.

 

[noisewreck]

Disagree with what exactly

Disagree specifically with:

I don't much care that they didn't pan out as an "instrument"...

And:

Every once in awhile I fire it up and use it for a cheesy synth pad or some sound FX noise candy on one of my recordings

Just because YOU don't use the instrument (yes, the instrument) to it's full capability it has nothing to do with any deficiency in the instrument

I didn't say it was a bad sampler...I just said that I don't use it much these days, mostly 'cuz I got away from the whole sampler/MIDI thing about 10-15 years ago, not long after I bought the damn thing...so yeah, it was a bad purchasing decision. I wish I had the $5000 right now instead of the sampler sitting in my rack.

I can understand that. And I would LOVE to take it off your hands, if I didn't already have a Kurzweil K2600XS that meets my needs. I am looking for an E-Mu 6400 Ultra sampler though, just because it has some interesting filters. I have tested their soft-sampler, but it doesn't sound the same as their hardware units